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Animal Rights

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 9:33pm

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,712 posts

Knight

"Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: theyâre only animals."
â Theodor W. Adorno

I haven't really waded into the discussion on animal rights, but from what I believe so far, yes blah blah, animals have to have their modicum of rights as well. But what really grinds my gears are animal activists who go on and on about pictures of safari hunting, etc. There's a certain extent that I would care about animals and cruelty (experimentation, pet abuse, etc), but until we stop eating battery farmed animals, I don't think much moral high ground can be taken.

So yes, your opinion?

 

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 10:43pm

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

Oh, good. Thanks for digging up this land mine.

My opinion is simple: I believe there is such a thing as animal abuse because there are idiots who abuse anything weaker than them for no good reason, and I think they all deserve a baseball bat to the face. As for food and wild game, I have nothing against eating meat. I don't think you should kill an animal unless you are going to use it as food, and I think you should kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible.

My father hunts deer with a slug shotgun. He never shoots unless he's sure he can kill the deer, and we always clean and process the food ourselves (it's saved us several hundred dollars in groceries).

As for experimentation and lab rats, I really don't have an opinion. Don't do it for fun.

But what really grinds my gears are animal activists


That would be PETA. I do not like PETA. I like the ASPCA, though. They're much less...volatile, and they funded a shelter that we adopted kittens from.
 

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 11:03pm

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

"Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: theyâre only animals."
â Theodor W. Adorno


But people are animals I thought?
 

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 11:11pm

FishPreferred

FishPreferred

2,165 posts

But people are animals I thought?


Yes. It should be specified that this is about non-human members of the animal kingdom.
 

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 11:39pm

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,712 posts

Knight

I broke Godwin's Law on the first post. :<

But people are animals I thought?


Yep....but what would be the implications of such a statement? I think it'll also be fruitful if we discuss how we differentiate from animals, and how that would translate to different legal actions.
 

Posted Feb 14, '14 at 11:43pm

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,712 posts

Knight

Oh dear, my post got eaten up again.

I broke Godwin's Law on the first post.

But people are animals I thought?


Yup, I think it would be fruitful as well to discuss how we differentiate from the rest of the animal kingdom, and how that would translate to different legal treatment.

That would be PETA. I do not like PETA. I like the ASPCA, though. They're much less...volatile, and they funded a shelter that we adopted kittens from.


My Twitter feed has been bubbling over with animal rights activists chanting and howling, especially when pictures of rich corporate fat cats pose with dead lions and when news of the King of Spain's hunting trips came out in the past. I wonder if it's a growing trend or not? Anyway, should hunting for sport be restricted further?
 

Posted Feb 15, '14 at 12:37am

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

My Twitter feed has been bubbling over with animal rights activists chanting and howling, especially when pictures of rich corporate fat cats pose with dead lions and when news of the King of Spain's hunting trips came out in the past.


Maybe you should just stop following those people?

Hmm. Personally, I don't see any real benefit in hunting for sport. There's an adrenaline factor, and you've killed something much bigger and more powerful than you (rather than, say, a squirrel), so a feeling of success comes with it. It doesn't really offend me, but if it gets to the point that the animals are facing extinction, it's a problem.

That's what happened in America with bison; people shot them from trains just to see how many they could kill and left them there. Whitetail deer, on the other hand, are so overpopulated where I live (Maryland) that they're starting to show up on front lawns of suburban homes and crossing roads late at night. Hitting a deer with your car is not uncommon, and it's an enormous waste that can result in serious injury and death of the driver (not to mention the deer).

So, I guess what I'm saying is that hunting for sport would only be productive if a species was over-populated, especially a carnivorous species, as it wouldn't be hunted by other animals. If a species starts to decline to the point of extinction, hunting of that species should be banned. How would we measure that? I don't know. But I've never thought about it much.

I myself would not be interested in going on a safari. I was raised on a farm, and I would only kill an animal for food or if it was a serious threat (we have encountered rabid animals before. I have no use for a dead rhino.
 

Posted Feb 15, '14 at 12:41am

nichodemus

nichodemus

13,712 posts

Knight

Maybe you should just stop following those people?


Nawww, they're my Arsenal fan Community friends.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that hunting for sport would only be productive if a species was over-populated, especially a carnivorous species, as it wouldn't be hunted by other animals. If a species starts to decline to the point of extinction, hunting of that species should be banned. How would we measure that? I don't know. But I've never thought about it much.


Well, I don't see the point too in killing in a safari or a game forest just for the thrill and enjoyment, solely based on pragmatic terms. Now, what about the ethical side of hunting animals for sports? Are we violating their ''rights" if they have any?
 

Posted Feb 15, '14 at 12:58am

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

Well, I don't see the point too in killing in a safari or a game forest just for the thrill and enjoyment, solely based on pragmatic terms.


People like guns and adrenaline. Combine them by placing your life at risk with a much faster, stronger being armed with an extremely powerful rifle. I guess? I dunno I get that by target shooting plastic bottles and riding a dirtbike. Not as efficient but still fun.

Now, what about the ethical side of hunting animals for sports? Are we violating their ''rights" if they have any?


Ah yes, animal rights. Alright, I'll just give my belief on the subject (I will no doubt regret it). Animals and people are different. Humanity is a step above animals. I don't believe animals have rights, or at least the same rights humans have. If we were all placed in the wild, an animal would have no problem killing a human as a source of food. I think that goes both ways. As for hunting for sport, I think it's a bit lopsided in that people shoot animals to feel proud about it, when it doesn't go the other way, but it isn't a violation of animal rights because animals were never given rights.

People assign rights to each other (for example, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), but this applied to mankind. Somewhere along the line, a group of people decided that animals are equal to us and therefore have the same rights. That's not true. An animal has no awareness of it having "rights" in the first place, as an animal lives on instinct, natural awareness and the "survival of the fittest" principle. There really isn't a point in saying "the animal has the right to a life of happiness" because the animal is an African lion. It doesn't care about your rights anyway, and, if it has the chance, it will kill you for food.

Personally, I think there should be some basic common sense applied. If there are only two African lions left on the planet, don't shoot them. If the African lion population is so large that they're moving into cities and villages, you may want to shoot a few more. Plus the "animal abuse" element. Shooting an animal once with intent to kill is not abuse. Abuse is...well. I don't really want to give an example. A lot are pretty graphic.
 

Posted Feb 15, '14 at 1:05am

MattEmAngel

MattEmAngel

7,610 posts

Here's a thought: isn't it interesting that people, myself included, will always get the most upset if a dog dies in a movie, rather than a person? "I Am Legend," for example, broke down half of the high school senior class of 2012 when it was played for them after final exams. In any move at any time I always fear for the dog (especially if it's a Retriever or Shepherd) more than anyone. A marine dog took a bullet in an episode of NCIS (it survived). I ALMOST cried anyway.

Why is that? Could it be that people see animals as lessers that don't deserve to die? Or is it just because dogs are freakin' awesome and way more adorable that the humans in the movie?

 
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