ForumsWEPRThe true definition of fact.

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BRF321JOJO
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BRF321JOJO
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It is said an Opinion is one that is not based on a fact such as things that will happen in the future because they can't be proven.
Is it not an Opinion that in two minutes someone or something could...

1. Bench-press 100000000000000000000000000 pounds.
2. Survive with a 200 temperature.
3. Exist of a plane with zero thickness.
4. Unburn a piece of firewood.
5. Travel at a negative speed.
6. Have a negative mass.
7. Survive with no blood at all in your body.
8. Two objects occupying the same space at the same time.
9. Hold have held their breath for 46 years.
10. Run 46000 miles per hour.
11. Find the largest number.
12. Survive for 19 years without water.
13. Make a sound in space.
14. Spell the word "extraneous" correctly without using the letter x.
15. Speak any letter of the Alphabet with your lips closed.
16. Freefall from space and survive.
17. Never eat anything and survive.
18. Touch the sun without anything heat protective on and survive.
19. Physically touch someone or something on the opposite side of the Earth.

I'm trying to ask and discuss if these things are opinions or not.

My definition of fact: Something that can be proven right or wrong. (In teacher's notebooks for teaching in many places.)

My definition of opinion: Something that is subjective.

Other things that are weirdly proven fact or opinion using these rules.

Is it a fact that a cat has 5 legs? (By this definition it is a fact)
Does God exist (By this definition it is opinion)
But for some people, God is fact.

Also, something has to be fact or opinion. I don't think there is anything that isn't fact or opinion. If there is something you can think of then plug it in with my definition of fact and opinion and if it can fit then you don't have to ask or tell me.
One definition of fact is something that is 100% right. I'm using the definition proper for Deciding if something is fact or opinion.

Please help me decide whether this is true. Mainly the list of things.
If you disagree with things please be nice.

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09philj
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Fact is whatever is demonstrably true in real life.

Jacen96
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You have had this explained to you time and time again.

Facts are 100% true in every way, no exceptions.

While you can make a claim that cats have 5 legs, it is not a fact because empirical (this is the right word right?) evidence proves that cats have at most 4.

~~~Darth Caedus

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
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Does God exist (By this definition it is opinion)
But for some people, God is fact.


But you just said that an opinion is not a fact. See, you can't even hold to your own invalid definitions.

Also, something has to be fact or opinion. I don't think there is anything that isn't fact or opinion.


Unless it is actually true, a lie is neither fact nor opinion.
09philj
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To be more precise, I would split all statements into four groups:
1. Facts. Facts are true and can be proved to be so.
2. Opinion. These cannot be proved to be true or untrue.
3. Wrong statements. These are accidentally untrue.
4. Lies. Deliberately untrue statements.

MattEmAngel
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It is said an Opinion is one that is not based on a fact such as things that will happen in the future because they can't be proven.

My definition of opinion: Something that is subjective.


Just for the heck of it, here is the definition of Opinion, according to Merriam-Webster:

: a belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something : what someone thinks about a particular thing

: advice from someone with special knowledge : advice from an expert

: a formal statement by a judge, court, etc., explaining the reasons a decision was made according to laws or rules

None of those match your definition. It doesn't line up with Dictionary.com or the Oxford dictionary either. Your definition of opinion is an opinion itself.

Is it not an Opinion that in two minutes someone or something could...

1. Bench-press 100000000000000000000000000 pounds.
2. Survive with a 200 temperature.
3. Exist of a plane with zero thickness.
4. Unburn a piece of firewood.
5. Travel at a negative speed.
6. Have a negative mass.
7. Survive with no blood at all in your body.
8. Two objects occupying the same space at the same time.
9. Hold have held their breath for 46 years.
10. Run 46000 miles per hour.
11. Find the largest number.
12. Survive for 19 years without water.
13. Make a sound in space.
14. Spell the word "extraneous" correctly without using the letter x.
15. Speak any letter of the Alphabet with your lips closed.
16. Freefall from space and survive.
17. Never eat anything and survive.
18. Touch the sun without anything heat protective on and survive.
19. Physically touch someone or something on the opposite side of the Earth.


It is in my opinion that someone could

1. Bench-press 100000000000000000000000000 pounds.
2. Survive with a 200 temperature.
3. Exist of a plane with zero thickness.
4. Unburn a piece of firewood.
5. Travel at a negative speed.
6. Have a negative mass.
7. Survive with no blood at all in your body.
8. Two objects occupying the same space at the same time.
9. Hold have held their breath for 46 years.
10. Run 46000 miles per hour.
11. Find the largest number.
12. Survive for 19 years without water.
13. Make a sound in space.
14. Spell the word "extraneous" correctly without using the letter x.
15. Speak any letter of the Alphabet with your lips closed.
16. Freefall from space and survive.
17. Never eat anything and survive.
18. Touch the sun without anything heat protective on and survive.
19. Physically touch someone or something on the opposite side of the Earth.

Notice that you said something can only be a fact or an opinion. Since these are currently non-factual, by your logic, they must be opinions. But you said they aren't opinions. So they aren't opinions and they aren't facts, but you said they have to be one or the other. See the problem?

Is it a fact that a cat has 5 legs? (By this definition it is a fact)
Does God exist (By this definition it is opinion)
But for some people, God is fact.


1. No, by definition that is a question. The answer would be a fact. And it isn't.
2. No, that is still a question. The answer would be an opinion.
3. "For some people" is not conclusive. A fact is 100% provable and correct. If God's existence was a proven fact that couldn't be disputed, we wouldn't be discussing it. It's not a fact or an opinion. It's a belief (acceptance that a statement is true).

Also, something has to be fact or opinion. I don't think there is anything that isn't fact or opinion. If there is something you can think of then plug it in with my definition of fact and opinion and if it can fit then you don't have to ask or tell me.


"I don't think" is not conclusive. Also, you're quite mistaken. Fish and phil already pointed it out, but since you requested something that isn't fact or opinion, here:

"I burned to death immediately before I typed this."

So is that a fact? Or an opinion?

Please help me decide whether this is true. Mainly the list of things.


Come to think of it, you said "someone or something." 2, 12, 16, 17 and 19 are factual for several elements, such as tungsten (since one definition "survive" is "to continue to exist&quot. For 19, a steel rod that extended all the way around the curve of the earth could easily touch something there and here at the same time.
HahiHa
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My definition of fact: Something that can be proven right or wrong.

As already mentioned what you are describing here is a claim or a statement. I like the following definitions of a fact:
- In science, a fact is a verifiable and objective observation.
- In philosophy, a fact is either a true proposition or something (a state of affairs, for example) that "makes" a proposition true.
wikipedia on facts

For example, it is a fact that cats have four legs. However, it can also be a fact that "this cat has five legs" in the case of a single cat that has actually five legs.

Oh, and just because I saw this recently:
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/a5dgoqG_700b_v1.jpg
BRF321JOJO
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BRF321JOJO
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Well I was hoping for different people to respond to my stuff but I guess that the forums aren't thriving enough. I got stuck with you people again.

I just wanted a more expanded look on this but ok. We can devote this to facts.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130822050200AAoDWTk

This link is what I was trying to explain with claim. A claim is an opinion and is seen to be used to diminish opinions.

Cats have 5 legs isn't a claim because it can be proven.

[q]Does God exist (By this definition it is opinion)
But for some people, God is fact.

But you just said that an opinion is not a fact. See, you can't even hold to your own invalid definitions[/q]

I wasn't going back on my words I was trying to show both sides.

And a lie is a fact because it can be proven false. And is false. But a lot of lies are opinion though. For example Oh I think this chicken you made is wonderful *barfs*. I'm now saying a lie is too broad of a word or to off of a word to use with fact or opinion. This is included with things that are unintentionally true.

Matt: the first definition is describing something that is subjective.
And I would say definitions are opinions because they are subjective as some have different versions. No wait because there is an accepted definition? No so definitions are opinions because many are different in different dictionaries.

Hey when you quoted my list of things if you quoted the whole thing it would make more sense.
[q]It is said an Opinion is one that is not based on a fact such as things that will happen in the future because they can't be proven.
Is it not an Opinion that in two minutes someone or something could...[/q]

I actually say that it is not an opinion that those things could happen because (in two minutes) those things couldn't happen. You said that I said it was my opinion. It's not. I said specifically things that happen in the future. Not anything. (In two minutes I said.)

I asked it in a question but does that even matter? I was asking if that thing was a fact. If I said, is "Cats have five legs" a fact? Would it be better for you?

Yeah I know god is an opinion or belief which is subjective so it is an opinion. But its a fact for some people. People believe in it fully. 100%. Do you disagree in that people don't believe in God. And "12.5% of the world's population are non-religious" or "most people in the world are religious" would be a better way of saying "for some people."

You burning to death before you could have typed that is fact because we can prove you have by checking your death record. Finding your body and checking for burns. The evidence that you can't die then do something after it.

Word play, really? On tungsten? You know what I meant by survive and when said someone or something in some cases it only works with something or it only words with someone.

A person can't touch another. 19 only works with someone.

Haahi:

[q]In science, a fact is a verifiable and objective observation.[/q]

Why in your definition of fact is the word objective?

It is possible for a cat to have five legs. Thanks for pointing that out.

I agree that the picture is wrong and the guy in the red shirt is incorrect and using fallacies. I would use that picture to describe me though because the red shirt guy used too many fallacies and I am not. This is a way of talking for a person and trying sound dumb. The person who created the picture is obviously on the scientist's side so that person tries to make everyone else look stubborn by talking for the red shirt guy. No way the red shirt guy would
admit he was not arguable with. And the scientists fails to explain what facts are to him. And because definitions are opinions because there are many different ones, the red shirt guy could possibly be right. But of course under extreme circumstances and it would be very unlikely

FishPreferred
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This link is what I was trying to explain with claim. A claim is an opinion and is seen to be used to diminish opinions.

A claim isn't necessarily an opinion. That's an opinionated claim.

Cats have 5 legs isn't a claim because it can be proven.

If you claim it, it is a claim.

I wasn't going back on my words I was trying to show both sides.

Ahem:
http://i57.tinypic.com/24dpwz6.jpg

And a lie is a fact because it can be proven false.

No. A lie is not a fact. Why? Because it can be proven false.

But a lot of lies are opinion though.

You just said it was a fact. Now you're saying it's an opinion. None of this is making sense.

No wait because there is an accepted definition? No so definitions are opinions because many are different in different dictionaries.

No. They are not opinions. Why? Because there is an accepted definition. If I define spoon as "a spherical celestial body revolving about the sun, similar to a planet but not large enough to gravitationally clear its orbital region of most or all other celestial bodies", is it reasonable to expect everyone to accept this definition of the word spoon?

I actually say that it is not an opinion that those things could happen because (in two minutes) those things couldn't happen.

He just explained how some of them could.

Yeah I know god is an opinion or belief which is subjective so it is an opinion. But its a fact for some people.

See; you just did it again! And you were accusing me of doublethink? You can't even keep three simple ideas in order. Here, I'll break it down for you:

1 An opinion cannot be a fact.
2 A fact cannot be an opinion.
3 The existence of God is both an opinion and a fact.

That is what you are saying. Do you not see that there is a problem here?

You burning to death before you could have typed that is fact because we can prove you have by checking your death record.

No, it isn't, because he can't write it when he's dead; and no, that's not how post-humous literature works.

Word play, really? On tungsten? You know what I meant by survive and when said someone or something in some cases it only works with something or it only words with someone.

"Someone or something". Something includes tungsten.

I would use that picture to describe me though because the red shirt guy used too many fallacies and I am not.

No. If anything, you would use it in a desparate attempt to salvage what remains of your self-esteem by pretending to be the one using logic.

And the scientists fails to explain what facts are to him.

Well, we're several steps ahead of him, then.

And because definitions are opinions because there are many different ones, the red shirt guy could possibly be right.

Except for the fact that they aren't, so he couldn't.

MattEmAngel
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MattEmAngel
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Fish, I applaud you for responding to everything he said to me and doing an excellent job. I honestly have nothing to add to it and agree to it completely. Except for this:

Well I was hoping for different people to respond to my stuff but I guess that the forums aren't thriving enough. I got stuck with you people again.


That was a mean thing to say.
BRF321JOJO
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BRF321JOJO
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There is a source that might help.
From wiki "Fact."

Alternatively, fact may also indicate an allegation or stipulation of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[7] (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy&quot. This alternate usage, although contested by some, has a long history in standard English.

Fact may also indicate findings derived through a process of evaluation, including review of testimony, direct observation, or otherwise; as distinguishable from matters of inference or speculation.[9]

Facts may be checked by reason, experiment, personal experience, or may be argued from authority.

Fish:

A claim isn't necessarily an opinion. That's an opinionated claim.

If it isn't an opinions please give me evidence or an example.

If you claim it, it is a claim.


Please explain how cats have 5 legs is a claim.

Both side of the argument is better for arguments that aren't arguments but informational. I'm not fighting anything or you. If at any point you say I'm going against myself in your responses I'll just be that I'm not arguing against anyone but that its informational and able to be rebuttaled.

No. They are not opinions. Why? Because there is an accepted definition. If I define spoon as "a spherical celestial body revolving about the sun, similar to a planet but not large enough to gravitationally clear its orbital region of most or all other celestial bodies", is it reasonable to expect everyone to accept this definition of the word spoon?


A spoon and a moon are too far of to relate and be able to confuse with each other. Lets say my whole life I said my rational is rationale. My definition of rationale would be different. Also there are many different definitions of a word so everyone's perceptive of a word is different.

I thought you said you knew God was not a fact.


No, it isn't, and I am directly saying that. Watch: God is not a fact.

http://armorgames.com/community/thread/12304571/fun-and-haters-wish-to-lock-this/page/8

Its even in bold!!!

No, it isn't, because he can't write it when he's dead


Who's he and whats he writing?

Word play, really? On tungsten? You know what I meant by survive and when said someone or something in some cases it only works with something or it only words with someone.

"Someone or something". Something includes tungsten.


I just said in that case something couldn't work. OR is your new favorite word.
Jacen96
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Stating that a cat has 5 legs is a claim.
The earth orbiting the sun is a fact.
Being a member of a religion such as Christianity involves belief in God.
Saying one thinks that Justin Bieber (apparently, Bieber is not a word, at least according to my spell check) is a horrible singer is an opinion.
Saying that I am female is a lie, but lies are claims, not facts.

Alternatively, fact may also indicate an allegation or stipulation of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[7] (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy&quot. This alternate usage, although contested by some, has a long history in standard English.
This refers to an instance in which the author is stating that his claims are fact when in fact they are not.

~~~Darth Caedus
MattEmAngel
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If it isn't an opinions please give me evidence or an example.

Are you serious?

Example of a claim: "Cats have five legs."
Example of an opinion: "I think pizza is the best food."

Please explain how cats have 5 legs is a claim.

Are you serious?

Claim: to say that (something) is true when some people may say it is not true.

You say that "cats have five legs" is true. I say it is not true (because you have no proof). I literally cannot make it any clearer than that.

A spoon and a moon are too far of to relate and be able to confuse with each other.

Says who? I think they're an excellent example, and it doesn't matter anyway. The point is that his "definition" of something does not make it an accepted definition, unlike a dictionary which is comprised of accepted definitions.

I thought you said you knew God was not a fact.

He did. And he now says "The existence of God is both an opinion and a fact." Your point? It's not a fact in the sense that it is not singularly a fact.

Who's he and whats he writing?

Are you serious?! Go back and read my post.

I just said in that case something couldn't work. OR is your new favorite word.

You still said it, and I used it to disprove you. Think twice next time. Also, I fail to see how his use of the word "or" is relevant to anything.

MattEmAngel
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I'd like an explanation of this:

And a lie is a fact because it can be proven false. And is false.


So you are stating that a lie is a fact, meaning all lies are facts.

But a lot of lies are opinion though.


So you are stating that a lie can be an opinion, meaning all lies are not facts.

And you're accusing Fish of contradiction?
HahiHa
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First I'd like to mention that the comic I posted was not aimed at anyone, I just thought it was fitting into the thread...

Why in your definition of fact is the word objective?

Because a true fact is an objective truth, contrary to opinions which are subjective. You cannot contest a fact with subjective objections, only with additional objective evidence of the contrary.

It is possible for a cat to have five legs. Thanks for pointing that out.

No problem. However you should realise that "a cat has five legs" is a claim until proven right or wrong. If proven right, it becomes a fact. If proven wrong, the fact established is that "a cat does not have five legs".

Alternatively, fact may also indicate an allegation or stipulation of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[7] (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy&quot. This alternate usage, although contested by some, has a long history in standard English.

Yes, this also exists. But as Jacen said, anyone can say their claims are facts using false or incomplete evidence.

Maybe it would be better to say that facts are not necessarily the absolute truth cast in stone, but depending on evidence at hand. But a fact IS based on evidence. A claim is a statement that has not yet been proven right or wrong. An opinion is something that cannot be right or wrong, but can be biased, justified or just a simple opinion (as in "I like yellow&quot. And a lie is a purposefully wrong claim.
FishPreferred
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Alternatively, fact may also indicate an allegation or stipulation of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[7] (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy&quot.


That is not the literal usage of the term. It does not apply here. The word "facts" in the example is used only to clarify that some statements are being purported as facts. Anyone who argues that they are not technically facts would be correct.

Please explain how cats have 5 legs is a claim.


I...just...did.

Both side of the argument is better for arguments that aren't arguments but informational. I'm not fighting anything or you. If at any point you say I'm going against myself in your responses I'll just be that I'm not arguing against anyone but that its informational and able to be rebuttaled.


So, according to you, facts are not facts, but opinions and questions are except when they aren't, claims can't be claims unless they aren't facts, tungsten isn't a real thing because it isn't alive, lies are true except that they aren't unless they also are, God is subjective and therefore a fact, but not a fact, the word or means "if applicable in a way that supports my point, but if not then", and if arguments are not arguments they are two-sided arguments.

A spoon and a moon are too far of to relate and be able to confuse with each other. Lets say my whole life I said my rational is rationale. My definition of rationale would be different. Also there are many different definitions of a word so everyone's perceptive of a word is different.


What I defined was not a moon; it was a dwarf planet. While you may think that they are the same thing, and you may claim that they are the same thing, the fact remains that they aren't. A moon cannot be what you mistook for a moon any more than a fact can be whatever you are calling a fact.

I thought you said you knew God was not a fact.


In this, at least, you were correct, because I did say that.
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