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An open question.

Posted Jun 22, '14 at 11:34pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

For the sake of gathering other's opinions on the topic, I'm not going to include any information here in the op post. Note that this isn't a survey or anything like that, I just don't want to bias anyone by saying my views first. I'll put my response in after a few others have given their input and I'll respond to them too. I would like people to read this and give their opinions.

In particular, what I am looking for is for the whole article to be read (it's not very long) and criticisms of it. How accurate do you think it is? Can the information be called reliable? What implications does this have? How might this information, if true, change how you look at the issue? Are there parts that you disagree with? Are there parts you agree with? Those sorts of things.


last edited Jun 22 2014 11:36 pm by Kasic
 

Posted Jun 23, '14 at 2:55am

09philj

09philj

1,126 posts

How accurate do you think it is?

Probably quite accurate. My speciality is clinical trials, so I'm not the person to ask.

Can the information be called reliable?

Data taken from human experiences is usually not reliable, and tends to change.

What implications does this have?

Given that the study seems to have been ignored since April or earlier, none.

How might this information, if true, change how you look at the issue?

I already assumed such things occurred, since women are meant to have been emancipated. (Not that I am suggesting that that was a bad thing.)

Are there parts that you disagree with?

Things that happen in US prisons probably need their own survey, because the prison system inflicts a whole new outlook and values on you.

 

Posted Jun 23, '14 at 9:07am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,018 posts

Knight

Not really surprised. Rape needs to take into account both genders.  But rape of males needs to get more attention, since the stereotypical image is of a strong man having his way with the fairer sex when that's not always true.

 

Posted Jun 24, '14 at 11:35am

thebluerabbit

thebluerabbit

2,915 posts

hmmm reminds me of a story i heard happened in russia.

a guy broke into a store and the owner (female) caught him, tied him, force fed him viagra and had sex with him nonstop till the police got him.

if i remember correctly they didnt do anything to her. she recieved the image of a strong girl who taught him a lesson and people just thought this story was funny.

i wonder how people would have reacted if it was a girl who broke into the store and a guy tied her up and did it to her.

sexism is so sad...

 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 6:11am

Jefferysinspiration

Jefferysinspiration

3,138 posts

How might this information, if true, change how you look at the issue? Are there parts that you disagree with? Are there parts you agree with

I think worldwide, the media needs to report on such cases to raise awareness. In Ireland, it's constantly women raped in the university area when coming home alone clubbing, but never reports of male abuse and i'm sure it happens. It's the medias negligence to understand this is a real problem. I mean there are so many movies that tackle the issue of a male being raped but most of them are done from a comic stance which in my opinion helps fuel the image that men should be big enough to prevent being raped.

It's disgusting to portray males as this big oppressors who can't be hurt, and disgusting to portray women as weak little things who are constantly being over-powered.

@thebluerabbit Yeah, I think you're on about Olga Zajac whos story is a bit iffy anyways. It happened years ago, but started circulating a few years after and details have been fabricated because I think she enjoyed the fame. Either way, it's horrific. She should have beat him and called the police, not treated him like a sex slave. He was robbing her, not intending to sexually assault her. I looked it up and although every article says she was arrested, I can't find her being charged with anything. (If anyone can, please share because i'm interested). How horrific though, a man gets raped continually for three days and a woman does no time for it? Unless it didn't really happen.

sexism is so sad...

I totally agree. As a woman, I don't like being seen as weak. I am, but i don't like that i'm generalized that way. My Fiancée is stronger than most our male friends, and she's absolutely tiny. Just shows ya.

 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 8:11am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,018 posts

Knight

I think that Russian story was proven to be a hoax though....the responses though, were interesting to read, and reflective of the larger issue!

 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 11:10am

thebluerabbit

thebluerabbit

2,915 posts

I think that Russian story was proven to be a hoax though....the responses though, were interesting to read, and reflective of the larger issue!

the story itself really isnt important. whether it was a hoax or not, the awful responses are still real. its so frustrating.

on 9gag i saw an experiment that 2 actors did. when the guy humiliated and "hit" the girl everybody came to help her (espacially women). when they changed parts and the girl started to assualt the guy, a few people ignored them. most laughed.

 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 11:12am

Moegreche

Moegreche

2,806 posts

Moderator

It's disgusting to portray males as this big oppressors who can't be hurt, and disgusting to portray women as weak little things who are constantly being over-powered.

This is such an excellent point and one that speaks to the broader issues of this study. It's a well-established fact that many women who are raped never report it or pursue any legal action against their attacker. Combine this with the ridiculous gender stereotypes that you mentioned and things become even more problematic.

I feel like gender equity is the broader issue here and one that should be prioritised over the rape issue. Cases of rape are pretty much inevitable, which is a shame. But this gender bias has many more ramifications beyond males not reporting cases of rape. If this issue could be tackled, I think society as a whole (or at least those societies in which this could effect change) would benefit from a better understanding - or perhaps complete abolishment - of the notion of gender roles.


last edited Jun 25 2014 11:13 am by Moegreche
 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 4:11pm

Jefferysinspiration

Jefferysinspiration

3,138 posts

@Moegreche - Exactly what i mean. Even in cases of domestic violence, society feminises the abuse, so males feel like they can't come forward about it happening.

Both rape and domestic abuse stem from a craving of wanting to feel powerful, not a gender hormone.

 

Posted Jun 25, '14 at 4:15pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,572 posts

My opinion on the article is that it is probably fairly accurate. While the prison rapes are not representative of society as a whole, the lack of a response or even mention of this information in the media clearly shows what is thought of males experiencing these issues that are normally thought of as only women's issues. I do think that it only makes sense that men are also victims of these crimes and that women can also be the perpetrators. We're all human and have the same propensity for wrong doing, giving the opportunity and upbringing. More research into the area is needed as a whole, for both women and men, but the clear dismissal of the issue in regards to men is a problem because it shows that we are not looking at the situation as a whole and only from an incomplete, biased position that women are the primary victims and men are the majority of perpetrators by far when it comes to these types of crimes.

Data taken from human experiences is usually not reliable, and tends to change.

How the information is gathered also makes a huge difference. As mentioned in the article, due to the way rape was defined, it pretty much automatically excluded males to begin with except when another male was involved.

since the stereotypical image is of a strong man having his way with the fairer sex when that's not always true.

What I find interesting is that people forget that rape is done not by total strangers through violence most of the time, but by those the victim knows. Rape is when it is not consensual, but doesn't necessarily involve physical brutality. This only seems to be forgotten when it comes to the issue of men being raped by women, where the argument, "A woman can't overpower a man," is so readily brought up, or that "a man can't be raped because he must have wanted it since he had an erection," when saying a woman wanted it because she was physically aroused would elicit a furious response.

It's the medias negligence to understand this is a real problem.

The media reports on what people want to hear. What people want to hear is shaped by their beliefs, and those are influenced by the media. It's a cycle that doesn't promote a change very quickly because the issue has to become widely known and accepted as an issue, but cannot do so because the media will not report on it due to current societal views and thus do not search for those kinds of stories in the first place.

It's disgusting to portray males as this big oppressors who can't be hurt, and disgusting to portray women as weak little things who are constantly being over-powered.

This is the biggest problem. We try to say as a society that we see women as equal, yet we do not treat them as such. Women are seen as powerless victims that cannot do anything to protect themselves. I'm not grouping all feminists as a whole, but it is branches of feminism that are largely helping to promote that view, especially when they use rape culture and patriarchy as their arguments.

i saw an experiment that 2 actors did. when the guy humiliated and "hit" the girl everybody came to help her (espacially women). when they changed parts and the girl started to assualt the guy, a few people ignored them. most laughed.

I've seen it too. It did a good job of showing the double standard of domestic violence towards women vs towards men. I think I linked it in a previous thread.

It's a well-established fact that many women who are raped never report it or pursue any legal action against their attacker.

Yet completely ignored when it comes to men, where feminists (again, not all of them) laugh or scoff at the notion despite claiming to be for equality.

But this gender bias has many more ramifications beyond males not reporting cases of rape. If this issue could be tackled, I think society as a whole (or at least those societies in which this could effect change) would benefit from a better understanding - or perhaps complete abolishment - of the notion of gender roles.

Exactly. This is why I so often call out feminism. It focuses only on women and tangentially the LGBT community. The approach used may work for gaining more rights for women, but it is not going to reach equality between genders or abolish gender stereotypes/roles. I don't want this thread to become about feminism, but I feel it's impossible to talk about the subject with at least mentioning it because feminism is that driving force behind the topic of gender issues.


last edited Jun 25 2014 04:17 pm by Kasic
 
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