Forums → Games → GCCS: Peter will nerf Permafreeze soon!

is there any other info/rumors about what other changes are coming with the new version?

i get that sometime things come up and the game doesnt work the way it was supposed to, or players find some loophole that needs to be shut, but it seems that of the nerfs are directed at the "hardcore" players for lack of better term
i see two groups of players......and i totally recognize the generality this, but the casuals who are trying the game out and might even play far enough to "beat" the basic story of the game............and then everyone else for whom the challenge of pushing the boundaries a bit more is the interest.
its the second group of players who are more "loyal' to the series, who are the ones posting in the forums and keeping discussion of the game happening ( which is really like free advertising), and trying to push what they game can do. I dont consider myself the super hardcore, in that i have done nothing in terms of pushing the envelope of game function. ( other than the hex f challenge ) like others who have developed improved methods of gem combining and mana farming. i have played the whole series, but until CS never even looked at the forums. but anyone who is part of anything more than the casual player are the ones Peter should be focusing on. maybe even gathering a chat room of people to discuss what works and what hasnt. but when he nerfs the things that make the game fun for us, i have to wonder why. whats the end game so to speak.
just my thoughts. love the series, its the games i keep coming back to, but all the changing is starting to get frustrating.
thanks for tuning in to my rant lol

You can look through his blog at his website (link in game or at least on author page), there's some ideas he abandoned. Hex S. He talked up the vision fields a lot too, hopefully more of those.

It depends on what he doesn't like about it, pointless drudgery often seems a design goal with him... I think he's rescaled the spell cool-down before anyway, it used to be 0 at skill 60 or did that require talisman properties that aren't given out now?

Probably the best way to address would be to severely lower movement but not take to 0, that'd keep it useful low level, but not allow you to plant in place forever. If he really wants rage, he'd apply amplifier bonuses after bound bonuses, then you'll need grade 200 gems to finish f1 (which would be pure theory/cheat anyway since you won't be able to afford past 60)

I feel sorry hearing that! And I don't get the point why Peter thinks, that it is neccessary to nerf it! At least for me and some others the possibillity of supermaxing xp and WL is the reason to stay at GCCS for a long time and no "normal" player has any disadvantages when some freaks go in "deep freeze meditation" - There is no scoreboard where "normal" players are surpressed...

Keep calm, wait for the update. Though it doesn't sound like a positive change...

well all change was not possitive.
many features were removed...
all funs were removed too...

to level i need days of play on same level praying for not crash and praying for not destroying the left click on my mouse ...

the one thing i want from 1.1 is that the shots per sec are as they are stated.

I like how random ***** explode the moment Peter takes out their favourite "easy win button". I think the problem here is people's mindset, as most of them were too accustomed to completing easy-peasy endurances in Labyrinth.
CS endurance though is akin to GC0 one, where you technically can see the last wave, but can't actually defeat it. Most of so-called "hardcore player nerfs" are essentially removing of loopholes, which allow to complete endurance effortlessly.

The main problem is non-premium can do it. Can't do anything with it if you farm mana for days, but is able to do it. It's much easier for premium to get enough of the higher tier of talisman that make it possible, but it's not impossible yet.

Well the main problem is once you hit a level in the 200s, the answer for everything becomes the same. Yay, you use 4/9 of the gems instead of 3/8 like Labyrinth (if available non-Prem) and swap one later premium, but it's the same thing no matter the map.

Minimally to complete an endurance you're probably looking at at least 2 hours, and you'll need mana pool wave-stones at decent intervals to keep well ahead of the growth in monster health. It's chancy, and I haven't had success with it yet (I'll try again a few times, because I'm certainly not going to let it run for days to get the mana needed or cheat it in), but seem to be getting close to a win. Granted it takes awful grind to get decent xp doing it, which I don't consider fun.

At least premium isn't as easy as GCL, that was a joke (see i.e. the G13 challenge), and I'd consider it ridiculously hard to make something balanced where everything is at least situationally useful in the game as it's set up. Hopefully V1 will see some actual play-test this time.

Oh, at least we've seen some progress in lag, at least as far as sane gameplay goes.

Permafreeze is not a loophole, anyway. Its an exploit; it exploits what you are able to do once your Freeze duration becomes longer than its reuse.

That said, with luck (as UgahgItHurts says) and with high powered gems, if it is not possible to beat early stage Endurance runs without permafreeze, it is darn close. High powered gems with high powered upgrade routines to further improve their power are what permit it; permafreeze, when all is said and done, merely allows for the mana to produce those gems.

I'm not fully convinced that we have come up with the best gems yet, anyway. We've come close, but there's more power to be squeezed into gems still. Whether it be a new gem recipe (such as psorek's new 32 spec found here : https://gist.github.com/quinor/2a554a9373987174269b ) or a new upgrading technique, I don't know. But higher powered mana gems would allow for more mana from monsters even without permafreeze, and more mana means higher grade killing gems, for even more power in the killing gem than just a recipe improvement.

After reaching WL 200 plus the answer is always the same - right! Same like in GCL but no problem for me - I like being able to give the same answer earlier and more powerful
I don't get the point why that is "no good"

And, yes: Beating endurance is a goal after completing the game. The game itself can be beaten with a WL in the 60ies and instead of stop playing and wandering to the next game, I tried on maxing my WL to 3k+ and was happy to beat endurance, and I am still happy when I end an endurance run with thousands of billions of xp - when I can't do that anymore - why should I play on? My next WL is 225bn xp away, without any "advanced" techniques I would barely get a higher WL

Shrine&WoE was once a way to beat endurance, after (?) that got nerfed, it turned out that permafreeze & manashards are powerful enough to beat endurance, too. When this will be nerfed (and it surely will), there might be another way to beat it.

What I realy dislike: GC has some loyal fans, writing guides, figuring out the most hidden secrets of this game, sharing these secrets on the forum or in the comments and then, as a "reward", all these "toys" are taken away, the old guides don't work anymore - why should one make guides for a hypothetical next GC when it is foreseeable that it will be worthless a month later?

tl;dr: Bugfixes welcome, but changing the game-mechanics frustrates the fans

Don't be so quick to speak for all the fans My personal favorite fields are V2 and V3, because they're a challenge (well V2 is very simple to beat, but challenging to get to the end waves): you have very little to work with on those. Hitting some of the fields at lower than expected level is fun too, you might actually have to use armor and suppression gems for the purpose on the box or try several different set-ups until you get something that has a prayer of completing the field Would be really nice if V3 were moved out of hex C, so non-premium can blow us out of the water on it (and something better than laughable experience rewards on those would be nice too).

So it's nice we can enjoy the same game when what we're looking for is so different. It is annoying that doing that comes very close to breaking flash besides the awful slog involved.

Of course there's been improvements over GCL. There the easiest mode (giants) gives 5 times the xp of the hardest (swarms), we're just lacking that it's possible to win endurance without farming mana (very hard and tedious but possible) or leaving out one of the big two gems. Spells are great. Losing field-based xp would be fine with me if it weren't so slog-intensive to get relevant xp (at 2500 I'm at billions/level or something)...but probably ok that bilbo and I aren't talking about a different game due to level difference because he's ok with slog.

Sorry that I didn't make clear earlier, but perma-freeze isn't needed to beat early endurance. The spires/specters/shadows probably (I have to kill what for 10k mana and 900xp?), but it is a huge tedium saver (you can get the same results with a ton of angering--enough to get a few hits off on your farm instead of one hit kill which is sheets of angering every wave insanity).

It'd be nice if we were clearer on Peter's intentions for higher level play besides x was used to beat my precious endurance, must nerf.

I can totally agree with everything you wrote. The point I didn't make clear: Beating endurance itself has no deeper sense without much angering the monsters even in the higher waves. It doesn't bring you any extra xp. On my endurance runs, the last 1-300 waves (The ones, I couldn't anger due to max hp) were almost for free. I personally miss a "Orb not touched" multiplier to the final xp like in GCL.

Why would he nerf it? If people like hardcores have the patience to farm, farm, farm for a week for 1E33 mana, then let them!

Mana shards should be nerfed, not permafreeze...

Or at least do something like make Freeze take 0.1-1% current mana to cast...oh wait no then at the E30s it'd be impossible. Ah well, I'm sure I'll think of something.

But really it is currently mana shards that are breaking the game, not freeze. Personally I think beating endurance without mana shards is more valuable.

Would be really nice if V3 were moved out of hex C, so non-premium can blow us out of the water on it (and something better than laughable experience rewards on those would be nice too).

mana shards

Because you can complete endurance without farming frozen monsters for a week See http://armorgames.com/community/thread/12342185/gccs-how-to-get-a-lvl-100-gem-in-less-than-1-h for explanation of what it's possible to do.

Welcome back. I still find non-prem more fun as a game, but getting good talisman parts got annoyingly tedious (and the maps I have left to do nutso things on are pretty horrible layouts lag-wise...best I got on a map is a billion xp I think--that's 1.18 and 1.19, not easily broken versions lol).