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FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

Mark your calendars! Clear your schedules! Defragment your hard drives and install those updates!

It is time for How FishPreferred Are You?

As you may know, Gantic will not be available to do his usual schtick this year, thus it falls to me to continue this weird tradition of quantifying your similitude to some vague standard through a series of convoluted and seemingly arbitrary tests.

Sign-up is open until 10 spots are filled, or until September 9, whichever is sooner. You may wager any number of Gantic Points you like, but they will be disregarded because Gantic Points have no relevance to this game.

ROSTER:
1ʭ Hardstrike
1ʭ MattEmAngel
1ʭ Yellowcat
1ʭ hafaroman
1ʭ Coral42
1ʭ Boofuss
1ʭ Moegreche
1ʭ PLGuy
1ʭ Swarmlord2*

*Additional entry, because Hey, why not?

  • 284 Replies
Swarmlord2
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Swarmlord2
2,081 posts
Marquis

So the squiggly line isn't the problem, but should give clearer idea of the problem... Also, just passed 2000 posts

Swarmlord2
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Swarmlord2
2,081 posts
Marquis

Is the blue thing meant to be an eye? The shape in the yellow thing looks like a filament in a bulb. I am still unsure about what is wrong. The squiggly lines can't be right, as nothing could cause such a shift in space for light to follow such a path, apart from a larger black hole which would of course cause the light to be directed towards it, rather than the smaller black hole. Unless this is meant to represent gravitational waves from the merging of black holes, in which case, the problem would be that the second black hole isn't shown.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

I think that wrong in thing 1 is the fact that the second ray of photons should start forming a photon sphere - the black hole's gravity should become strong enough to capture photons, so they are orbiting it. I think that also the first ray should be captured into orbit similary and not absorbed into the black hole.

as the only similar thing I am aware of would be instability of the orbits of photons in the photon sphere which has a radius 1.5 times that of the Schwarzschild radius.

@Swarmlord2 you mentioned it, but don't you think that it actually isn't being formed on the gif? I think that there should be no light reaching white-blue thing when the photon sphere is created. The scribbly trajectories show how dynamically unstable are photons orbits.

Swarmlord2
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Swarmlord2
2,081 posts
Marquis

I was doubtful of it being relevant when saying that, and that only occurs close to the black hole, so the other line wouldn't be squiggly.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

It is somewhat in a range of the black hole so any perturbation should cause an instability. Also if the first trajectory shows way of just one photon it is correct that it is sucked into black hole but it shouldn't happen for whole rays - they should circle around the black hole on photon sphere.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
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King

Also, just passed 2000 posts

Congrats man! :-)

I think, that I know what's wrong with thing 3 - if the waves in this experiment are generated by wave sources on the water (blue colours of the waves + kinda vision from the top of that system) then if the themperature is 0 Celcius (could be also 0 K because that's the lowest possible temperature for a thermodynamic system according to 3rd rule of thermodynamics) the water is frozen so it's not possible to generate waves on it.

If on the other hand the sound waves are produced in the air and the temperature is 0K - air doesn't exist close to absolute zero because it liquifies and then freezes. Of course sound can still travel through solids, so the solid nitrogen could have sound conduction... After second thought the solid nitrogen would just fall on the ground and waves would travel in the vacuum...

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

Black holes only grow by absorbing nearby material, and there isn't any in Thing 1, so the black hole should not be growing at all. What's more, they mainly grow in mass, not size, so even if the black hole IS absorbing material (assuming it is there but not pictured), it would not expand at the rate it is shown to.

They can grown when absorbing energy - like solar energy, because E=mc^2. And I think that in black hole's case mass = + size because they already have super compressed mass, but let's see what our expert will say xD

The speed of growing seems to be wrong... If the problem isn't the celestial body on the left that isn't moving at all and should be in a motion on an orbit.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

I like how the grid is also being pulled by the black hole on thing 1. It shows the radius of gravity force equal to 2 grids. The second celestial body looks also like a black hole, but this one surronded by accretion disk and photon sphere - why is the surroundings square though :-P I could also think that's a photon star - I've read that they also can have photon spheres and they move together with whole galaxies.

Swarmlord2
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Swarmlord2
2,081 posts
Marquis

Is the problem that the warping of space-time caused by the black hole, as shown by the grid, is not being warped regularly, but is creating ridges and valleys, which together cause the path of the light to wobble as it passes aver them. I couldn't see the grid lines at all on the computer which I was using before.

Swarmlord2
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Swarmlord2
2,081 posts
Marquis

Just refreshing every few minutes, waiting for stuff to happen

Yellowcat
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Yellowcat
2,869 posts
Treasurer

Advice from Physics teacher: For thing 3, just because they destructively interfere doesn't mean the waves vanish and are no longer there, they should carry on.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

@Yellowcat I thought about the same thing - they only mask eachother and not dull (if those are not ocean waves), but waves could also end in that moment shown on the gif, but well maybe that's the thing... they also vanish from the wrong end, but it was already said, that it is the author's creativity.

My try on what's wrong on thing 4: The moment of shrinking the black hole is wrong. Shrinking happens in the moment that its mass is transformed into energy which is used to create vertical particles and not in the moment when one of the particles joins with it like it is shown on the gif.

PLGuy
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PLGuy
4,755 posts
King

I could also think that's a photon star

Oh my what a typo - I meant neutron star.

@MattEmAngel IDK maybe it is exaggerated just to show the processes, we need to wait for an answer from the boss. "Slightly in size" - that shows how dense are black holes, they weigh millions to billions (and surely even x100000... more) times more than Sun even if they are smaller. Fast speed of black holes growing is only for these that are the centres of galaxies (allegedly) during the quasar phase. I'll add one thing to my thesis on the mistake from gif no.4:

My try on what's wrong on thing 4: The moment of shrinking the black hole is wrong. Shrinking happens in the moment that its mass is transformed into energy which is used to create vertical particles and not in the moment when one of the particles joins with it like it is shown on the gif. Some of the mass and energy after annihilation of 1 and -1 particles comes back to the black hole and that other part shoots into the space and is lost for the black hole.

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

Is the problem that the warping of space-time caused by the black hole, as shown by the grid, is not being warped regularly, but is creating ridges and valleys, which together cause the path of the light to wobble as it passes aver them.
No. It's just harder to do distorted gridlines dense enough to show radial stretching. I'm considering redrawing this one, though.

Gerald Fishman, a NASA astrophysicist with a Ph.D in space science, said that "if there's nearby material they'll gather this material and they'll grow in mass -- but only slightly in size." The black hole should not be growing in size so ridiculously fast from solar energy alone.
I don't recall specifying a timeframe for this gif. In any case, you can consider this thing to show four hypothetical sizes rather than something growing in real time.
FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,171 posts
Duke

Here's an updated thing 1 in four frames:
https://imgur.com/VZrDmha.png

https://imgur.com/GEi4kOS.png

https://imgur.com/OR4IHLN.png

https://imgur.com/uNejMJp.png

What about my analysis of Thing 1?
It doesn't state what's wrong with it.
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