Forums → WEPR → Lincoln vs.FDR

obviously you think a man who leads a country to war and saves america from becoming part of the empire of Japan is terrible must mean your an idiot and it's MsterXantos not MasterXantos anyway he helped this country how could you ever say that every president has his good sides and his bad ones but FDR was not a fascist he was a democrat and wanted democracy

@MsterXantos

I think you called me an "idiot" in that post, but the grammar was so bad that I couldn't make any sense of it.

Lincoln is the way better person and president. FDR was a good man but Lincoln was btter. If only he wasn't shot. :'^(

I'd have to go with FDR without a doubt. The things he did during the Great Depression (CCC, TVC or TVA don't actually rememver exactly, etc.) modernized a lot of the country. As well as being one of the most inspiring leaders our country had during some of it's greatest hardships.

Lincoln also did a lot of good but I personally disagree with some of his methods, as well as some of the actions that he considered taking (like forcing all the African Americans back to Africa).

@SuperzMcShort
thank you

@thelistman
Fine here you are I did yes and I personnaly prefer either Wittman or SuperzMcShort's answers over anyone one of yours. You have done research I can tell but FDR a facist get real if he was he would have tried to turn the whole country under his facist rule you have no proof of it but the part of terrible president is kind of a personnal feeling so i probably will never convince you otherwise.

dang,I didn't expect people to get so worked over,because of this thread.Anyways the reason I didn't really want people to state their flaws and instead state their strangths is because it turns into a pure negative debate, and that is not what it was intended to be.Oh well.

@MsterXantos

He never did stop running the country until his death. He clamped down on freedom of speech during the war. He had over 120,000 Japanese imprisoned based on their race. When the Japanese were finally released, they were given little to no compensation.

A black man on Pearl Harbor took control of an AA gun and shot down 3 Japanese planes. He was arrested for using "White men's equipment" and dishonorably discharged. FDR refused to reverse the decision.

FDR also opposed anti-lynching legislation. He even said, "If I come out for the anti-lynching bill now, they (Southerners) will block every bill I ask Congress to pass to keep America from collapsing. I just can't take that risk." Sounds like blatant racism and fear-mongering to me.

How about when he sent a ship full of Jewish refugees back to Germany in 1939? Even after learning the extent of the Holocaust, he refused to let more Jewish refugees in America (only 22,000 were let in every year). Morgenthau (Secretary of the Treasury) finally had to sign off on a deal to let more Jews into the country.

He also promised the Arabs that Israel would never be created, in order to get Arab help in the war. FDR knew damn well that Israel was going to be created. He exploited the Arabs, and now the Arabs are pissed. He is one of the direct causes for the rise of Islamic extremism and terrorism.

If FDR were to be tried just like the Nazi war criminals, he would have recieved the same treatment... execution.

I don't see why you're trying to make this so negative, and in some of the cases that you've pointed out I don't see a good alternative (the anti-lynching legislation for example would have made it much harder for him to pass other legislation imperative to the well being of the entire country) and in many cases where it was FDR authorizing actions such as internment you can be sure that the decision itself wasn't all his.

Basically the way I see it, is that both of them gave a lots of questionable, and what in turn may have been considered underhanded orders as well as doing things that tremendously benefited their countries and thus it's far easier to compare the good that they did as a way of measuring which one was better then it is to compare the bad where I at least feel the debate becomes almost entirely subjective.

sheesh can i say debby downer and i see no p[roof he was a facist in you rwhole arguement

Ya, I really don't see where your getting the FDR was a fascist from. I mean Fascism according to wikipedia is "Fascism is a term used to describe authoritarian nationalist political ideologies or mass movements that are concerned with notions of cultural decline or decadence and seek to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race, and promoting cults of unity, strength and purity."

FDR wasn't any of that, he did do some questionable things (but then again what president who's done anything hasn't?) but none of what he did was because of a platform that the white upper/middle class of the U.S. was superior to the rest of the world or whatever else you're arguing he was saying.

There is no official definition of fascism. But it does include one ruler (FDR was pres. four times), oppression (anti-black, anti-Japanese, anti-Jewish, cuts on speech), militarism (HUGE build up of military while he planned to stay in Europe forever), Patriotism (Huge propaganda campaign to make people believe Americans were the best, and the Japanese were scum), etc.

By the way, his official explanation for not signing anti-lynching bills was such bull. It's like Bush saying the Patriot Act needs to be signed or America is doomed. It's a load of horse manure.

FDR way overstepped constitutional authority and set a precedent for future exercise of power beyond constitutional authority. The tenth amendment pretty clearly states that many of the things he did should have been done by the individual states not Congress and the President.
Lincoln did temporarily remove habeas corpus, but that was nothing in comparison to what FDR did.

I think lincoln was the better president, but FDR was also a good one too. I read alot of history on both of them and i know what kind of stuff they did.

you know thelistman, and necromancer.You guys are always making arguements against me in almost every topic I can think of.Why is that?

Anyways Every president has had their own set of problems, but seriously.I chose the two most famous presidents I could think of and you still found tons of issues with both of them.oh well I'm still going with ab lincoln just b/c I don't feel like thinking, and he still has a cool hat.

@thelistman
okay first off when you are at war you aren't gonna be nice to people who have just immigrated from Japan if you know how tricky the Japanese are you don't want to have them buying arms and internally killign the states and also everyoen is racist at some point in time no one has never been racist