Community

Abortion

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 8:02am

Moegreche

Moegreche

1,408 posts

Wood - Prince

Moderator

I think zerato has the only consistent view of abortion that I've seen.  Most people are uncomfortable saying that abortion in cases of sexual assault is wrong, but clearly if it's "murder" then it is wrong in any scenario.  Abortion should be an all or nothing situation - it is either fine across the board (except, perhaps, past the second trimester) or it is wrong across the board.  If we make exceptions for certain things, it seems like we're just acknowledging that abortion is not governed by morality.
The problem is that we have people who are for abortion, except as a means of birth control and we have those who are against it, except in cases of sexual assault or the mother dying.  Clearly, however, it's either right or wrong and so having exceptions obviously denies the normativity of the issue and creates an inconsistent platform.
But are we in a place where we can take one extreme or the other?  Or is it just the case that morality cannot solve the ethical concerns of abortion?

 

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 8:35am

Strop

Strop

4,021 posts

Iron - Prince

Moderator

Or is it just the case that morality cannot solve the ethical concerns of abortion?

It took me a while to get where you're coming from, you Kantian trickster, you!

I was like "all or nothing situation? What the heck!?" Besides, as you know, whether something has emerged or not from the uterus flies in the face of the sliding scale of development as your admission:

Abortion should be an all or nothing situation - it is either fine across the board (except, perhaps, past the second trimester

implicitly acknowledges.

Besides, I was going to propose another schema that accounted for moral normative judgment: beheficience and minimsation of suffering. This way it would be compelling to terminate a pregnancy in case of medical emergency but otherwise unacceptable to terminate pregnancy after 24 weeks. In this way morality can suggest guidelines to address the ethical concerns of abortion. I never believed that morality would actually solve problems anyway.

 

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 9:28am

Cenere

Cenere

2,264 posts

Iron - Lord

I think... I Denmark they are about to make a change in law, making it possible to have an abortion at any time during pregnancy. It is up to the parents to choose.
This is to secure that a possibly handicapped child could be found (using tests avaible in the 18'th week) and - destroyed (I apologize for my word chosen), if the parents do not want it. Mainly bacause this can be done in contries with higher limits (say 24'th week).
As it is now, the limit is the 12th week.

 

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 11:42am

Moegreche

Moegreche

1,408 posts

Wood - Prince

Moderator

What got me to that sort of all-or-nothing mentality was the comparison people keep making between abortion and murder.  Now, anyone who understands these two terms also understands that abortion is not murder, but I would like to draw an analogy.
With murder, we classify it not on the outcome, but on intent and praise/blame.  If there was not an intention to kill the person, then it's manslaughter.  If there was an intention to kill the person, but we don't blame them for it then we call it justifiable homicide (like self-defense, for example).  Only if there was intention to kill and we would not praise the act do we call it murder.  But the outcome - death of an individual - is the same in each circumstance.
I think one of the problems we have in talking about abortion is that there isn't this strict differentiation.  Now, whether or not there should be is another question entirely, but I think those who are pro-life would want to support such a differentiation.  We do assess intent, through terms like miscarriage versus abortion, but we do not assess the praise or blame that is called for in the situation.  Perhaps if we developed another word for an abortion that we don't want to place blame on the mother, then it would create a more homogeneous concept of abortion that could be addressed directly.

 

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 10:00pm

cowmaster1

cowmaster1

102 posts

Iron - Lord

reading any part of this really makes you think......

 

Posted Oct 8, '08 at 10:36pm

Drace

Drace

2,492 posts

Wood - Duke

If we make exceptions for certain things, it seems like we're just acknowledging that abortion is not governed by morality.

Id disagree.
Morality is bunch of universal laws (not natural laws of course).
But at some points more then one moral gets involved that contradicts with the others and we are to interpret whether a situation is right or wrong.

Such a thing applies to many situations including abortions.

It is wrong to murder, but its also wrong to force a women not to have one.

I can go as far as to say that we all have natural understands of morality. Meaning that the basic morals are coded in our brain. All morals we make up  are deprived of these 'building blocks'. The differentiation of opinions on morals is explained in this theory since the assigning of morals to new situations is different among people, since we interpret things differently due to many simple factors.

If the moral is 'murder is wrong' and another is 'force is wrong', we  would assign a situation witch has these two things as [i]bad .
Now the interpretation of it is confusing.

One asks, is abortion is really murder? One may say yes, another says no. Even so, if the moral of murder being wrong comes into contradiction with a fact such as "The man who was murdered killed the other guy's family last night" then certainly it is not wrong to kill the guy!

If you think otherwise, either a) one of us doesn't understand the situation correctly, or rather the same was or b) there is a 'mis' interpretation elsewhere that is relevant to the topic. If your a strong believer of killing is always wrong, there must be a reason for it.

Btw, our brains do not have to have a comepletly natural born moral codes. I find it perfectly logical to say that the moral blocks are that of given from society. The important thing is, that the  "morality" exists in our heads. That is, everything is of subject to being right or wrong. This is a factor in which the brain recognizes in the steps of interpreting a situation.

Dam my bad explaining skills. Well I hope you can give me some credit, I just thought all that out as I went along, lol.

 

Posted Oct 9, '08 at 12:19am

BASHA

BASHA

620 posts

Iron - Knight

lots of long posts and adhd don't mix well so I will just say that I am pro choice.

 

Posted Oct 9, '08 at 7:07pm

Eshploded

Eshploded

504 posts

Gold - Squire

Eh. So Drace, it would all lead back to which personal moral law you value more than the other? (when it comes to having similar aspects of right and wrong)

 

Posted Oct 10, '08 at 4:05pm

I_eat_pikmin

I_eat_pikmin

34 posts

Gold - Squire

this is my opnion i think its wrong its basically like murder and whats weird to me is if the baby survives the abortion its against the law to speed up the killing because then it would be murder....lol wait isnt that what they just did kinda stupid but ok and if the mother gets to live a good life why cant the kid? i mean dont kill it if you dont want it put it up for adoption seriosly... this is my opnion!

 

Posted Oct 10, '08 at 5:32pm

Megamickel

Megamickel

927 posts

Wood - Knight

So, let me get this straight.
You want me to believe that something that is human the second it leaves a woman's body isn't human while it's inside? Like it undergoes this magical transformation, huh?

Right, makes perfect sense. Go ahead and kill it, it's not murder. Not at all. [/sarcasm]

 
Reply to Abortion

You must be logged in to post a reply!