Forums → WEPR → i want to have a religios debate

Without religion, what is stopping you from going over and stealing your neighbor's nice car? If you don't believe in religion, you probably believe in evolution and natural selection, or survival of the fittest. If you have religion, you have a reason not to steal, kill, etc, but otherwise there is no right or wrong in the world.

For me, even though I'm an atheist, that doesn't mean I do whatever I want. While I reject any kind of universal morality, I recognize that many people have crappy jobs and a lot of unhappiness. Since I know that this is their only chance for happiness, I try to do what I can for people to make their existence a little less bleak.
Some of the greatest ethics philosophers have needed a god in order to have rewards or punishments - but I simply enjoy trying to be nice to people and I generally feel bad when I'm not so nice. God doesn't enter into the equation for me.

I am not going to tell my religion but i think that it is right because it draws people together and it makes them realize what they need, and the leader is in direct communication with your self

I can kindof understand what Moegreche is saying two posts above mine, but still, when did you acquire this conscience? According to evolution, only the strongest survive, and having pity/mercy for others does not help you survive any better. This is my question: at what point did things change?

The point when religion poofed. Now, people are holding the morals of that religion and throwing whatever else was their behind. As such, their killing the root meaning of why those morals were made, for the person following the religion.

You know, its recorded that before the history of great prophets in history, Murder, rape, gambling, drinking were so common you'd feel like your on the streets of Baghdad all year round. Once people understood that things like brotherhood and morals were, Communities pounded open. So you wouldn't steal your neighbors car if yours broke down, you could just ask for a ride the next time they go to the mall/foodstore/ etc.

I made a post in the Construction Religion thread that answers your question, Sting. Basically, it seems that morality must have existed before religion - it just wouldn't have been called "morality."

It did in the hearts of good people, Moe. But it didn't keep people away from other dangers. You dont' think getting alcoholic can cause you to murder? Back then death punishments were valid. I don't know. I believe that morality did exist, but it was a weak, useless word that affected good natured individuals. [And I can assure you, there aren't many people born that way]

Really? I didn't see a post that really answered my question of how conscience just 'magically' appeared, after suppossedly millions and millions of years of just doing what you can to survive. I mean, with that philosophy, I guess cavemen would eventually learn to work together, but every time they had the chance they should have still taken advantage of one another, if they could have gotten away with it.

What's different now? It's not that everyone who commits a crime is an atheist - they just don't think they'll get caught and don't really assess the consequences in the afterlife. It seems that to say religion facilitates morality ends up making a circular argument. Well, maybe not - if it has been so long so that this inner &quotack morality" has left us and has been replaced by societal expectations (which is quite likely) then the argument isn't really circular anymore.
Morality is such an ambiguous term and there are so many ideas as to what the terms "good" and "evil" actually mean. I feel, though, that at the end of the day they're all just words. In Christianity you are allowed repentance for pretty much any sin, so I don't think hell is a very good deterrent. I don't think Judaism has hell, and I also don't think Islam does (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, though).
I think it's the fear of being ostracized or judged by others that is a primary motivation in doing "good" acts.

I am not saying that just because someone is an atheist, they will cheat, steal, kill, etc, but you cannot say that most people who break the law in those serious ways turn around and say "I am a Christian". Some of them might believe in a god, but they don't really have a definite religion.

And yes, Christianity does allow repentance for almost any sin, but to understand that you would have to go into the whole idea of what the God of the Bible is like, and I'm too tired to get into that now. Maybe some other time we can dive deeper into this, but for now, I'm hitting the sack.

Your far off, Moe. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all have Hell. They all have Heaven. They all have the SAME God! Its an unknown fact, but it all started in the same spot. Their like Neighbors. And very diverse in life. [I'd go deeper, but snoozy time calls. ^^]

But you're wrong, your allowed repetance, but you've forgotten a fact. As god knows all and watches over us like a "Holy Butterfly" [I heard that from a paster, sounded really weird].
So, the thing about "OMG I can do whatever I want I'll get the sin cleared later!! ^^" Is gone. Hell is a detterent, because if you do it knowing you'll be cleared. You won't be cleared. It'll be a checkmark your not getting closer to heaven.

Not an "Uknown fact", Just not a "Well known" fact. Sorry. I've corrected myeslf. xP