Forums → WEPR → 5 Point Calvanists
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Im just curious as to how many 5 point Calvanists we have here. If you are one or have a question about them please speak up!
A five point calvanist believes in the 5 points of John Calvin which are summed up in TULIP,
Total Depravity
we are totally dead in our sin and have nothing to do with our salvation it is entirely up to God.
Unconditional Election
God selected His people before the foundations of the earth were made and He has saved each and everyone of them and shall continue.
Limited Atonement
No one other than the elect can be saved.
Irresistible Grace
The elect can do nothing to avoid being saved.
Perseverence of the Saints
God will keep His people and none of them will fall away and everyone of them will reach their final destination, heaven.
There they are. You may think them cruel but God is gracious to save any of us after we have rebeled against Him. We are like clay and he is the potter, when the potter makes a mistake he can easily destroy the clay and start over. But God has been gracious and has given us a second chance. As for election He does not keep people from being saved through this, but rather saves people that without this none would be saved because we are ALL spiritually dead, and a dead person can do nothing on their own to be revived. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and we are all dead in our transgressions, without His grace we would all be damned but through His grace some are saved and this is not unfair. Because He created us can He not therefor do what He wants with us?
Please speak up if your a Calvanist and leave your thoughts either way! Thank you!
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Original sin taints our thoughts and desires so that many of the things we as humans like are wrong.
Not at all the original sin did one and only one thing, it separated us from God. We do not inherit the sin, we only inherit a world full of sin. Why do we sin? Because naturally humans are greedy selfish beings.
As I've said before the Calvinist argument fails miserably, you keep showing us one verse and acting like it's proof I could say that faith alone won't get you into heaven just because "faith without works is dead" but of course I'm taking it out of context and there are many more verses's that show faith alone does get you into heaven. We have more verses many more in fact and we have the support of the majority.
samy: So you don't believe in total depravity? This is a grave issue...original sin separates us from God because our thoughts, desires, and ultimately free will are tainted to keep us away from God. That is the reason why salvation cannot be attained with grace.
So you don't believe in total depravity? This is a grave issue...original sin separates us from God because our thoughts, desires, and ultimately free will are tainted to keep us away from God. That is the reason why salvation cannot be attained with grace.
I do however I believe that it's all caused by the individual and isn't directly related to the original sin, in other words in life there is a point that before you were a perfect sinless being.
MrMonkey3: I think you're misinterpreting the issue. What it boils down to is the issue of original sin, that is, the sin we inherited from Adam and Eve that leads to death. Original sin taints our thoughts and desires so that many of the things we as humans like are wrong.
Now you may donate money to charity, feed the poor, help the sick. Those are good things. However, they are hollow if you cannot accept the "ultimate good," or God. How do we know that helping the poor and sick is good? It's a moral code that stems from the beginning, the ultimate good, which is to say God (who, as part of his attributes is all-good and all-loving).
So what you do would be an good act, but not a righteous act unless it has God himself in mind. That is what is different in God's eyes. Unless you have a sense of the ultimate good in the world through Jesus Christ, anything you do will fall short of righteousness. This does not mean that you should murder or steal, for those things are intrinsically evil. What I'm saying is that our sinful natures taint even the good things we do.
You missed a lot of my previous discussions with noj.
You see I believe in doing good things for people because its the right thing to do. No matter how good you are you will sin we are not jesus christ we are not perfect thats how we were made. I beleive god put us here to try and lead the best lives that we can. I beleive he knows how we are going to live our lives anyway but he doesnt control our lives he gave us free will.
According to what i've heard people are automatically selected to go to heaven without them doing anything. Others ar damned for nothing. This doesnt make sense to me for I beleive that god is infinatly forgiving of us he knows we will mess up, but we have to try to be the best we can be we have to strive to be better to others.
According to this original sin is the end all be all of everything. You can live doing everything perfectly I will do what I think is right if that means I have to literally fight to protect someone I will. This world is far from perfect we need to be the best we can be. That feeling inside when you know you should help that may be conscience but I think its also the holy spirit. I think that my way is the better way to live because I think thats what god wants not for us to be perfect but to TRY.
Just a quick question, MrMonkey3, what's your religion/viewpoint? I thought you were agnostic/atheist from your previous discussions, but I'm not too sure.
The thing i hate about MOST religious people, is that they point out the ridiculousness of other religions, but are too ignorant to look at their own beliefs flaws. 5 point Calvinists are just another religion with different belief than yours, so let them be.
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