Forums

ForumsArt, Music, and Writing

Haiku Contest - Broken Bond (page 531, due: Feb 2)

Thread Locked

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 3:33am

Arceus12

Arceus12

148 posts

Sorry EmperorPalpatine i ment Like a ice-cold block of ice

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 8:12am

Maverick4

Maverick4

6,891 posts

You're both right. Finally can be used as an expressive independent clause, such as in an exclamation. The structure of the sentence and the location of finally will render whether comma use is appropriate.

Finally! Winter is here.
Winter, finally, is here.
Winter is finally here.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 11:40am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,476 posts

Like a ice-cold block of ice

I assume you mean 'an'. Repost the corrected full haiku, please.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 1:39pm

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

440 posts

You're both right. Finally can be used as an expressive independent clause, such as in an exclamation. The structure of the sentence and the location of finally will render whether comma use is appropriate.


Er, no. "Finally" is not a clause at all, much less an independent one. It can stand alone, but that does not make it an independent clause.

And it's not necessary to put commas around it as if it were an appositive.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 3:31pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,476 posts

"Finally" is not a clause at all, much less an independent one.

You're right about it not being a clause, but it is still a nonessential parenthetical expression, which requires commas. examples
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 7:08pm

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

440 posts

You're right about it not being a clause, but it is still a nonessential parenthetical expression, which requires commas.


This isn't like those examples though. "Finally" is a single adverb that modifies "here." Yes, it is nonessential, but that can be said of all adverbs. But if we are assuming that there must be commas, what makes "Winter, finally, is here" and "Winter is finally here" so different that the commas may be omitted in the latter clause? "Finally" is nonessential in both cases.

This is why I was baffled when grammar became a criterion. Consideration of flow should hold much more weight unless there are clear grammar errors.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 7:23pm

killersup10

killersup10

2,766 posts

blistering tundra
beautiful swollen snowflakes
frozen paradise


Thanks emp, don't want points to be taken away just because of something like that.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 7:58pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,476 posts

what makes "Winter, finally, is here" and "Winter is finally here" so different

I suppose it's because the subject and verb are not disrupted by it in the second version.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 8:37pm

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

440 posts

I suppose it's because the subject and verb are not disrupted by it in the second version.


Unfortunately, this sounds more like a matter of preference. This is not an actual rule (at least not one that I am aware of), and it would be quite unfair to participants if an objective set of rules were considered subjectively by judges. Subjectivism is necessary in judging, but if grammar is going to be a criterion, you should understand everything about grammar, especially with something like comma placement, which is minor but precise. Otherwise, nitpicking would not only be petty but also potentially unwarranted. Matters are only made worse when people subvert grammar rules to achieve specific effects.
 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 11:36pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,476 posts

Unfortunately, this sounds more like a matter of preference. This is not an actual rule

It's a rule. I happened to guess correctly. He created an interrupted sentence structure by placing the modifier between the subject and the verb. link