ForumsWEPRHow to create a better U.S.S.R.?

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Socialism
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Socialism
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Nomad

Now while some people thing that communism would fail after a certain point... what if... you reformed it into a more socialistic society?

In theory communism is best, we all know that. But in real life a less stringent form of goverment like socialism would be far better as we know not everyone will work equally like machines. Although socialism is similar, in many ways it is also different. It prevents the oppresive dictators from forming and more rights to the people. I believe that capitalism is about as sad as it gets. The Soviet Union would of lasted much longer had they increase consumer goods and decrease military might. See the way to a great nation is not through death and war. It is through creating a country that is so great, safe, and powerful. That people from other places would say.

Hey, would i want to fight them, they've done no harm. In fact i would rather go and fight for them than here.


It is sort of a unique form of socialism, keeping the basics, but working on the details, show others that you are strong, happy, and proud of your country. That if it came down to it. Would you give your life to go fight for your motherland? You, by your own mind, would immediately say Yes.

And to one day, have peace, by achieveing a global socialistic state. It have a end to wars, to focus on reserch in space, and work on technology for quicker food production, cheap and clean fuel sources.

To have the Reformed USSR on the globe and nothing else in my dream. For everyone to be equal and have a fair chance at life, if they want to be an astronaut, they will be. Not have some school deny him or her that dream because they can't afford the ridulose price of college.

For education and healthcare to be cheap or free. To help their neighbor in times of need. This is my dream, and i'm ready to make it happen.


[i]The Revolution is coming... The Question is... Are You Ready...?


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  • 138 Replies
Drace
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Drace
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Nomad

Socialism as thought by Marxists is the transitory state between capitalism and communism (the stateless and classless society in which the proletariat own the means of productions)

Marx, contrary to anarcho-communist belief, thought that the workers needed an experienced revolutionary party party to guide them into communism. He called this stage socialism. Because there is a party in rule, it does become a political system as well. Of course it matters how you define socialism. My perspective is of classical Communist thought.

How do you define socialism?

To come to think of it, I never actually mentioned anything about socialism/communism being a political or economical system.
So I dont understand this response.
"Socialism is a economical system not a political system like communism."

I can tell you though, that communism is more economical than political. The theories on how a communist society would actually work is very limited. Marx never even explained it. Marxist-Leninist simply view communism as the final goal, where class and private property are abolished, ending class struggle, and the workers have control over the means of production

The fall of the Soviet Union reveals the effect of capitalist propaganda.


What does the fall of the Soviet Union have to do with capitalist propaganda.

The reason I originally made the comment about capitalist propaganda, because the term communism these days is used so improperly that its funny. The cause of its misuse? Cold war propaganda.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

I don't think I would want to be that kind of leader... that sounds a lot like brain washing to me.


It is not brainwashing. You let the people believe what they want to believe. If you tell the people that you're pushing socialism on them, they will not listen. You must make them want what socialism offers without them realizing that the thing they want is in fact the thing they would say no too. Power is the use of manipulation. To think that any leader is completely honest is foolish. The best leaders, good and bad, have used their own versians of manipulation to lead their people.

Although that is true, with control over the entire world taxes would give so much cash to the goverment they could give out free healthcare to anyone. Not to mention, think my friend. We would have the minds of every country together as one. We would advance in medical technology at a astronomical rate. We would soon enough barely have a need for hospitals and clinics.


Who said the whole world would rule under the same government? You will always have people who dissagree with the government. No matter how perfect the system is, someone will not like it. So even if you could turn the world into a socialist world, you will still have people trying to break the system and to start their own government.

Let us say that somehow, everyone does support commu*cough* socialism. Medical care would still cost money! You need to pay the doctors! If the government is allowed to create money at will, so that they may pay the doctors, you get inflation. This will cause even more problems! You give the doctors money, they become rich. The doctors will become rich because they get money directly from the gov. Everyone else will make as much money that matches their bussiness. This will create classes. This basicly starts class problems.

Although that is part true, the fact is. In a capitalistic society people have and always will find a around these laws and systems. The goverment is smart but people are too. When one thinks a law is loop-hole free, theres really 20 on the front page...
The goverment is doing a worse and worse job as the state of capitalism decays.


People will always find a way around laws no matter what government is in charge. Failure to see that is ignorance.

Though America is (arguably) going down hill, it is not solely the result of capitalism itself. It is the result of many other factors as well. Their are loop holes in communist and socailist governments as well. Many other forms of government have also failed.

When the hell was this proven? I seen this thrown out so many times but never seen any reason for it.
What if I made the the opposite of the statement.
When you give everyone the same amount of money, they all become happy and eager to help each other out, as they realize that the economy relies on all workers to function properly and helping each other helps themselves. I wrote like a whole article on the human nature argument, not sure where it is now though...


Do you honestly think every human being is compeltely honest? It's basic psychology! When you give people the same amount of pay, no matter what they do, many of them will become lazy! Why work hard for money when you get it for sitting around doing minimal work? The people who work hard are those who work for more increased pay. If people are never going to make more as the others around them, they won't work harder!

THIS IS HUMAN NATURE! You won't have a nation of people who all agree on the same thing. This means you will not have a nation of people who support helping their government with all their power! You wan't proof? Open up a psychology book once in a while. People care about themselves before others. This is all natural. You say there is no proof, I say you refuse to look at the proof.

Capitalism has flaws in its very system. Government in a capitalist system is perhaps theoretically the only thing that plays a positive influence in the majority of workers, because of things such as welfare and public education. It has proven to be quite unstable though. For one, corporations have influence on government actions and can divert the government from helping society and instead adding war plans to its agenda.


Every country has some form of influence from corperate bussiness. It is not a capitalist flaw that American Leaders are swayed by money. It is, however, a flaw that they have the ability to abuse their position. Then again, every government has this flaw.

And Im guessing your unaware that we actually produce enough food in the world to feed the whole human population, while someone dies from hunger every 3.6 seconds.
There is much junk being produced for the sake of a profit. There are wars being wages for profit. And of course profit also has everyone be a wage slave.


So what? This does not mean we will be able to afford free healthcare. You have to understand how people make their money. Money for food and money for healthcare comes from two different routes.

Communism is a stateless and classless society. Seeing the term used any other way just reveals the effect of capitalist propaganda.


Class happens. Deal with it.
Lieutenut
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Lieutenut
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Nomad

It is not brainwashing. You let the people believe what they want to believe. If you tell the people that you're pushing socialism on them, they will not listen. You must make them want what socialism offers without them realizing that the thing they want is in fact the thing they would say no too.


That sounds like lying then, but I saw your point as I read on... and I have to say I agree. That sounds like a good way to achieve what Socialism said.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Do you honestly think every human being is compeltely honest? It's basic psychology! When you give people the same amount of pay, no matter what they do, many of them will become lazy! Why work hard for money when you get it for sitting around doing minimal work? The people who work hard are those who work for more increased pay. If people are never going to make more as the others around them, they won't work harder!


Oh hey, DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE NOT HONEST PEOPLE!?
When you give people the same amount of pay, no matter what they do, many of them will become eager to do more!

Again, no arguments here. It just seems your convinced of this in your own mind and it automatically seems right.
Such actions reside completely in personality. People get enjoyment of things. You can get enjoyment of killing people, milking cows, or working hard. It does not have to be a material reward.

And your underestimating the power of a society. Do you think society as a whole is going to ignore slackers in such ways? Communism is a political and economical theory. The people will have the power as a whole to put in laws and take them out and to reform systems within that society. The communist idea that people should have equal pay isn't going to be a law. There are ways to come about it without resorting to a class system.

This means you will not have a nation of people who support helping their government with all their power!


As said, communism is a classless and STATEless society. There would no need for people being slaves to an invisible government.
The means of production would be controlled the way society wants it to.

Many years ago, in primitive times, men were thought to live in communal type of societies. They worked their own duties and shared their food at the end of the day.

Every country has some form of influence from corperate bussiness. It is not a capitalist flaw that American Leaders are swayed by money. It is, however, a flaw that they have the ability to abuse their position. Then again, every government has this flaw.


It is partially due to the capitalist system that they are able to.

So what? This does not mean we will be able to afford free healthcare. You have to understand how people make their money. Money for food and money for healthcare comes from two different routes.


Well for one, the statistic shows that the world isnt heaven under capitalism. And two, it shows that the capitalist system is not effective in managing resources.
Resources are used in the path of profit, but not necessarily the need of the people.

And Im guessing you never heard of the Soviet Unions, Cuba's and even Swedens universal health care?

Class happens. Deal with it.


Rofl, your getting ridiculous. This seems like a little stab of a insult you tried to throw at me for no reason.
That statement was not even directed at you.

Here. Go to revleft.com
Make an account and post your genius theories on the human nature and whatever else you want.
Socialism
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Socialism
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Nomad

ugh.... Nuclear war can't happen soon enough...

sense
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sense
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Nomad

That sounds like lying then, but I saw your point as I read on... and I have to say I agree. That sounds like a good way to achieve what Socialism said.


It is not lying... It is spin. The Government's fickle friend. We are surrounded in spin. It is a part of government that we will never be free of.

If you look closely, Democracy and many other forms of government are simply bribery. It might be bribery not for you, but for the environment or for the poor or the homeless, but if that is the reason why you vote for them... Socialism is basically the point between Democracy and Communism.
Socialism
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Socialism
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Nomad

The reason I originally made the comment about capitalist propaganda, because the term communism these days is used so improperly that its funny. The cause of its misuse? Cold war propaganda.


I know its been misused but im saying it indirectly helped in the fall of the USSR by having america get involved in their business.
Everyone who says communism automatically think its associated with evil because of capitalism.

Had the USSR been more successful than America in propaganda then the world might of been very different.
Drace
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Drace
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Nomad

Well the Soviet Union fell for a number of reasons (uhum..Gorbachev) but thats not something I feel like discussing right now.

http://www.rathergood.com/christmas

Enjoy everyone

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

And heres my piece on the human nature.

__

The human nature is a brain and nothing more. The actions one takes are only results of reasoning. This is perhaps where the argument arises. That all reasoning is built around things like money and power. I have no doubt that people act in self interest, that is, they act in ways that it benefits them. The argument views greedy things such as power as self interest, while completely ignoring the good deeds of men.

If viewing self interest as anything but having one men ignore his needs and act with the will of anothers men, then human nature is not greedy. That is, unless, we say that a men wants nothing more then his beloved money. This is the core of the counter-argument.

Men's actions are done in favor of what they value, in the direction of whats they believe to be the best. While one will value the act of charity, another will not. The one who does, still is acting in self interest, since he receives pleasure from it. What separates the other is that he does not value such things, and it is not of his interests. These two are both people I tell you. They are made of the same nature, the ability to reason what is the best of things, but they will arrive at different conclusions. Thus, to have people cooperate, we would not have to change their genetic makeup, but their values which they reason upon.

Socialism
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Socialism
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Nomad

People will always find a way around laws no matter what government is in charge. Failure to see that is ignorance.
Though America is (arguably) going down hill, it is not solely the result of capitalism itself. It is the result of many other factors as well. Their are loop holes in communist and socailist governments as well. Many other forms of government have also failed.


Yep, might as well shoot each other now and forget the idea, every goverment sucks, no goverment is just as bad, its really funny.
Drace
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Drace
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Nomad

I have come to understand that the answer to whther we are born greedy or not is not a simple matter of yes or no.

Men are self interested. In simple terms, we do not give ourselves into slaves. Our interactions are done in a form of trade. Things must be fair. Respect for respect, labour for labour. This is a simple nature of us which enables us to exist as civilized humans.

However, to say that we are born with lust for more is a completly another thing. For one, selfishness to this extent interferes with the human emotion guilt.
I would say the reason of this very nature is to regulate this "trade". For those who do not feel guilt, do not understand their doings.

A buisnessman is the ultimate example. His job is exploitation. This is how he makes his profit. Now for a buisness owner, his life is a game in which the objective is to beat the competitor. His buisness is his hobby. When he wins big, his happy, when he loses, his sad. His reactions to the buisness are the same as of ours to a sport. A buisnessman does not think of his riches. Sure, at the enterance he is excited to enter a new world. As he adjusts, his happiness is of always. When he wins, only numbers change, if its significant enough, it causes his happiness because he has done well.

Its no lust for wealth. If so, why does a buisness men have millions in the bank he does not use? His actions are comparable to us with our hobbies. Do we call it greed that allows us to continue playing a sport to enchance our skills?

A buisness is another hobby, but is large enough to have a control of others lives. Once ones hobby becomes a buisness men, it can be compared to a willing basketball player. Always practicing aang practicing. This is greed. The statisfaction of being better. But remeber a buisness men's life has an impact over others lives. So imagine us as re ball that a buisness owns and hits the ground in every attempt of becoming better. Their tactics of profit. In a negative matter I'd say, thus it can be eliminated.

Buisness is just another hobby. Thus, its not crime against humanity to eliminate it since many exist. Its rather a system which exploits men's fair esuring system of self interest into monsters.

Moreover on the "we are born with lust" propaganda. Its clearly evident in our lives that this is not the case. What is there to explain, just look at your own life. Most never picture ourselves

Socialism
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Socialism
30 posts
Nomad

And heres my piece on the human nature.
__
The human nature is a brain and nothing more. The actions one takes are only results of reasoning. This is perhaps where the argument arises. That all reasoning is built around things like money and power. I have no doubt that people act in self interest, that is, they act in ways that it benefits them. The argument views greedy things such as power as self interest, while completely ignoring the good deeds of men.
If viewing self interest as anything but having one men ignore his needs and act with the will of anothers men, then human nature is not greedy. That is, unless, we say that a men wants nothing more then his beloved money. This is the core of the counter-argument.
Men's actions are done in favor of what they value, in the direction of whats they believe to be the best. While one will value the act of charity, another will not. The one who does, still is acting in self interest, since he receives pleasure from it. What separates the other is that he does not value such things, and it is not of his interests. These two are both people I tell you. They are made of the same nature, the ability to reason what is the best of things, but they will arrive at different conclusions. Thus, to have people cooperate, we would not have to change their genetic makeup, but their values which they reason upon


It's basicly the long and boring way of saying some people want to do things their way... and some people want it done theirs.......
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

In my view, in an ideal world, society would be meritocratic with enough socialistic backdropping to give equal opportunity to everyone. That means starting with one standard school which splits into tiers over time, depending on meritocratic performance. There would also be all the necessities of life offered to all that do their part in society (welfare would be revamped to encourage employment.) However, incentives will be offered to harder, more demanding jobs, thus providing drive to earn merit.

This borrows greatly from Plato's Republic, but I still stand by it. A world in which power is not arbitrarily inherited, or won by luck, but instead it is the product of talent and effort, showing that someone is capable to lead wisely. This system does has its flaws; they are mainly all in corruption. However as greed tends to corrupt pretty much every economic system, I guess it can be ''cancelled'' out in order to suggest changes to the old U.S.S.R.'s system.

Socialism
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Socialism
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Nomad

/thread

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

Oh hey, DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE NOT HONEST PEOPLE!?
When you give people the same amount of pay, no matter what they do, many of them will become eager to do more!


Not if they get the money for doing almost nothing.

Again, no arguments here. It just seems your convinced of this in your own mind and it automatically seems right.


No, I study psychology. Not only are these my views, but the views of other people I know. Teachers and friends.

Such actions reside completely in personality. People get enjoyment of things. You can get enjoyment of killing people, milking cows, or working hard. It does not have to be a material reward.


Your point is? I fail to see how this supports your arguement.

And your underestimating the power of a society. Do you think society as a whole is going to ignore slackers in such ways? Communism is a political and economical theory. The people will have the power as a whole to put in laws and take them out and to reform systems within that society. The communist idea that people should have equal pay isn't going to be a law. There are ways to come about it without resorting to a class system.


That's so true! No wonder communism was such a success...

Let's be serious, people just aren't like that. You say it's possible, which it is, but the world just doesn't happen that way.

As said, communism is a classless and STATEless society. There would no need for people being slaves to an invisible government.
The means of production would be controlled the way society wants it to.


People are territorial. Territories will be made. What politics are there in high school? There is no government in high school, but students still form their own groups.

And your underestimating the power of a society.


No, I'm not. I actually studied psychology and socialogy. I always have been the top of my class in those subjects.

Many years ago, in primitive times, men were thought to live in communal type of societies. They worked their own duties and shared their food at the end of the day.


They also formed tribes and faught wars.

It is partially due to the capitalist system that they are able to.


Every system has flaws.

Well for one, the statistic shows that the world isnt heaven under capitalism. And two, it shows that the capitalist system is not effective in managing resources.
Resources are used in the path of profit, but not necessarily the need of the people.


The world isn't heaven anywhere. Oh, also, communinism never worked. At least capitalism lasted.

âWhoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.â
-Vladimir Putin


There is no single moment in history when man kind was classless beyond the age of machinery except in areas of poverty.

Oh, ok. I'm sorry. You were right. Communism does work. We should all live in dirt and fight day to day life looking for water.

About revleft.com

Of course they will dissagree! It's a website dedicated to communism. Of course they would dissagree.

You can't argue against ignorance.
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