ForumsWEPRBelief and Knowledge

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Moegreche
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Moegreche
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Without reading anything or researching anything, I'd like to know some gut feelings on what it means to "believe" something and what it means to "know" something and what is the difference.
Let's keep this "raw" - no references to epistemological theories or philosophers, just gut reactions!

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Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
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"epistemological" I'm sorry, but WTFreakerz? xP

Anyway, my GUT feeling : To believe something is to essentially KNOW that it will happen, depending on how strong your faith is. You don't beleive it if you don't trust it'll come true. Therefor, To believe something is the same as knowing, Seeing is believing, and Beleiving is seeing. Thats all I have to say.

An example: I believe people went to the moon, we have rocks. After all, those rocks could be hoaxes, I do really think we were capable of landing on the moon.

From your special gut feeling processor, -Armed_Blade-. Powered by "Not so Reliant Energy! Now in your Harris county power providing service area, call now!"

Moegreche
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Moegreche
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Okay, so you believe that belief = knowledge. Heh, well then I guess you know that belief = knowledge
You also mentioned faith, which I wasn't planning on mentioning, but since you're there what is faith and how does it fit into the equation?

soulsturtle
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soulsturtle
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what i think is seing isnt the only way of believing

Moegreche
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Moegreche
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I think I see what you're saying, soulsturtle. So belief is different for everyone, is that right? What about knowledge, is that definition also different for everyone?

steevo15
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steevo15
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One thing wrong with what your definition of what belief is, if you know it will happen then isn't it knowledge not belief?

I personally think that belief is having trust in something that cannot prove is there but there is possible evidence of it being there

Knowledge is something that is a fact...for example balloons exist

steevo15
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steevo15
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what i said was to armed blade's first post up there

Moegreche
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Moegreche
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So knowledge relates to facts - I like that. What's a fact, though?

Strop
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Strop
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Bwahahahahaha, how I love thee epistemology. I will not take part in this conversation >


...this is all part of your plan to enslave us in a Matrix, isn't it, Moe :P

XCoheedX
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XCoheedX
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Belief is trusting that an event will occur BASED on your belief. Knowledge of course is bare facts.

steevo15
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steevo15
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well, a fact is something that you can prove using one or more of your five senses. Staying with my example of the balloon.
Can you touch a balloon - yes
Can you taste a balloon - yes (it may not taste good)
Can you smell a balloon - yes
Can you see a balloo - yes

So therefor, it exists

Moegreche
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Moegreche
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Okay, I like that for the balloon example, but what about math facts? There are some you could experience (2 monkeys + 2 monkeys = 4 monkeys) but there are many many that you can't. How do we know these are facts, or are they?

steevo15
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steevo15
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sorry for the typo when i spelled balloon "balloo" but anyway i left out hearing because you cannot really heard a balloon, notice i said it is something you can prove using ONE or more of your 5 senses

Strop
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Strop
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Steevo: go google "optical illusion".

Your brain is a very good liar.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
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Simple, without your faith your beleiving may not be true.

Also, with what I said is just because I strongly believe in it [as many do]. Since its stupid to lean 50-50%, say your Christian, yet not truly believe in what you think you know.

Also, A fact is what, from a humans eye's perspective exists. Do, obviously, you get the problemozinger that a balloon exists because we can make them, and we've seen them. Lets say mars had aliens with no helium, what to do? Say balloons dun exist? :P

Anyway, I was relating to religion obviously when I spoke, faith piles in as power. If your faith bar isn't 99.9999% or more, your wasting your breath. Then, Beleiving is positivley knowing it'll happen, but having a doubt about it. That doubt lingers to everyone, and thats why I didn't say a hundred percent.

Knowledge is what we describe as facts, so if we have facts, we think we know what it is. BUT, we have facts such as the bible, so again, we know god exists. Just, doubt comes from everywhere. i even saw a show with old dudes saying people didn't land on the moon caza radiation or something.

I don't know, It seems as though if you have a fact you have knowledge, but if you believe in a fact with enough backed up proof for millions to believe your getting somewhere, right?

[Not backing up population statistics with #'s, but they do help, because all people aren't fools, and I'm sure theres a good lot out of those millions following]

steevo15
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steevo15
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Well for the math thing, i don't really know who created math or what was going through their head when they created math so i can't really say much on that... But i think number are more of a constant, a thing that cannot be changed. So i guess it you have a two and you combine another two with it then it becomes four, because four is two more than 2...its all very confuzing to me on how math and numbers came about

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