ForumsWEPR[redirected]If God created all things

1849 255471
DrCool1
offline
DrCool1
210 posts
Bard

Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.

  • 1,849 Replies
wolf1991
offline
wolf1991
3,440 posts
Farmer

Why do you think faith is an accurate means of determining reality?

Reality. In an attempt to gain some footing here I looked up the definition. Unfortunatly what I got was very vague and nothing close to what I wanted so; let's bring this back around to post-modernism and the idea of absolute truth. First let's understand that reality is based on our perception and therefore can be considered subjective. For example when I was younger (three or so) I didn't have any idea that there were people whodidn't believe in God as it was my perception that his existence as an absolute truth. As I've grown my perception of the world has changed and most of my thoughts of an absolute truth being able to be perceived by humans have faded away; however, I still believe that God is an absolute truth because this is my perception of reality. This is where my faith comes from; my fundamental understanding of the world. Of course your perception of the world is different than mine and has lead you to the inclusion that God isn't real, it has caused you to doubt. As doubt it the absence of faith I would argue that your beliefs require no more or less intelligence than mine simply that we view the world differently.


As good an answer as I've ever seen.

It should never be claimed that it is superior, I do believe that it's more important or more prevalent in society than the scientific method. When you step into a cab you don't ask to see the drivers record you simply assume that you can trust him to get him safety to were you're going. Faith. Personally I also think that objectivity is impossible as previous understandings and opinions will always cause some subjectivity whenever something is touched by human hands.


Unfotunately not everyone takes this view. History has plent of examples, the Crusades, the Reformation, even the rise of Christianity. But Samy I have a question for you. Could something happen to make you change your beliefs? Whether to a different religion, sect or stop believing all together?

"I see that faith is but the manipulation of the heart." -TK
Freakenstein
offline
Freakenstein
9,507 posts
Jester

Unfotunately not everyone takes this view. History has plent of examples, the Crusades, the Reformation, even the rise of Christianity. But Samy I have a question for you. Could something happen to make you change your beliefs? Whether to a different religion, sect or stop believing all together?


This is what sets past Christianity apart from modern Christianity. Back then, was there enough scientific evidence and technology that showed, from a scientific point of view, how life began, how it works, and what goes on that we can't physically see? Not really. That's why they turned to religion as an answer. Problem is, other people had different beliefs. The problem I saw with this is, they saw other beliefs as evil, along with refuting religion as being evil, even blasphemous. They just HAD to stick "questioning God is evil" in their faith.

Now, we have the option to look at life from a different point of view. You can either continue to look at religion for the answer, or you can learn about science and its point of view. But what really makes science any truthful from religion? It has to be the fact that we try many different tests to see if the same conclusion can be said in different forms, whether or not it is conclusive or just false, and whether or not this refutes other parts of science. It has to be the difference between what we know and what we think, and even sadly, what other people think.
wolf1991
offline
wolf1991
3,440 posts
Farmer

This is what sets past Christianity apart from modern Christianity. Back then, was there enough scientific evidence and technology that showed, from a scientific point of view, how life began, how it works, and what goes on that we can't physically see? Not really. That's why they turned to religion as an answer. Problem is, other people had different beliefs. The problem I saw with this is, they saw other beliefs as evil, along with refuting religion as being evil, even blasphemous. They just HAD to stick "questioning God is evil" in their faith.
Now, we have the option to look at life from a different point of view. You can either continue to look at religion for the answer, or you can learn about science and its point of view. But what really makes science any truthful from religion? It has to be the fact that we try many different tests to see if the same conclusion can be said in different forms, whether or not it is conclusive or just false, and whether or not this refutes other parts of science. It has to be the difference between what we know and what we think, and even sadly, what other people think.


Regardless there are still those who believe they are superior to other because of their faith, even today. History can still teach us about our present times.
Freakenstein
offline
Freakenstein
9,507 posts
Jester

Regardless there are still those who believe they are superior to other because of their faith, even today. History can still teach us about our present times.


Right, which is why there are religious wars, even now. It may be under the basis of angering their master, but it's really because they hate this religion, this religion hates this religion, yada yada.
thepossum
offline
thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

Regardless there are still those who believe they are superior to other because of their faith, even today. History can still teach us about our present times.


And atheists have never insinuated that they are superior to other people because of the other peoples' faith?
wolf1991
offline
wolf1991
3,440 posts
Farmer

And atheists have never insinuated that they are superior to other people because of the other peoples' faith?


It isn't the same thing. A zealot simply says you're going to Hell because you don't believe in my god. Or they say, "Die because you don't believe in my god." Atheists have nothing to go to such extremes.
adios194
offline
adios194
818 posts
Nomad

Regardless there are still those who believe they are superior to other because of their faith, even today. History can still teach us about our present times.

There are also the people who believe they are better than others due to their lack of faith.
It isn't the same thing. A zealot simply says you're going to Hell because you don't believe in my god. Or they say, "Die because you don't believe in my god." Atheists have nothing to go to such extremes.

It is the same. You can't do something and claim it's different based on faith, or lack of faith.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

There are also the people who believe they are better than others due to their lack of faith.


Of course. Lets look at all the wars atheist have started over religion: The.... nothing

Now lets look at all the wars other religions have started over there religion: The Crusades, the Inquisition, the....
Freakenstein
offline
Freakenstein
9,507 posts
Jester

Crusades, Inquisition, the aftermath of the Templar, the Revolutionary War, 9/11, I have a list here that were not as popular but still effective....

"Some say I've killed, some call me Satan
Now my blood must be spilled

I'm sentenced for crimes i did not commit
I'll pay with my blood, is this really it?

Don't call his name, don't trust in others
Bishops fighting for fame
Torture in vain, i won't surrender
Purified by pain

Mankind's great mistake was to create god
Creation of man, excuse to spill blood"

These are lyrics to a song, but the lyrics actually make sense. The great irony is, different religions really have no clue which path is correct, which god is the true god, which religion is the true religion. Of course, you'll say "Mine is the correct one!", but do you really know?

Now then, the follies, concepts, and methods of god and religion. The existence of such a deity, now THAT'S the part that can't be dug through a person's mind

wolf1991
offline
wolf1991
3,440 posts
Farmer

World War 2, The Six Day War, various Middle Eastern conflicts, the dispute over Tibet, several Jihads...

MageGrayWolf
offline
MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

(Sits back and waits for the "Those wars weren't really because of Christianity" and "Well that's not the true religion" excuses.)

samy
offline
samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

But Samy I have a question for you. Could something happen to make you change your beliefs? Whether to a different religion, sect or stop believing all together?


Could something happen. Well I'm sure something could happen but no specific event comes to mind. I've generally bounced from being an agnostic to being a Christian overly the last couple years so i can't say my beliefs are as solid as i would like them to be but my faith is continuing to grow stronger. It's impossible for me to say for sure though. If I were to ask you the same question how would you respond?

And my response to the wars...
Is coming tomorrow around six.
Freakenstein
offline
Freakenstein
9,507 posts
Jester

(Sits back and waits for the "Those wars weren't really because of Christianity" and "Well that's not the true religion" excuses.)


Really Wolf? hahaha bad examples XD

But like I said before, those were &quotast conflicts" that didn't have much acceptance, ethics, or scientific advances back then. They had their god to answer for everything. Now, it's much different. Those who ordered those wars to be executed? Extremists. I'm pretty sure an average church goer wouldn't want something similar to that to happen. Common sense dictates that.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

But like I said before, those were &quotast conflicts" that didn't have much acceptance, ethics, or scientific advances back then. They had their god to answer for everything. Now, it's much different. Those who ordered those wars to be executed? Extremists. I'm pretty sure an average church goer wouldn't want something similar to that to happen. Common sense dictates that.


That is probably what Germany thought in WWII... But with an impressive speaker and horrible circumstance and they will do anything.
samy
offline
samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

*high fives freak*

Oh hai shortened version of my general argument.

Showing 1621-1635 of 1849