Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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This is completely different. What Adam and Eve did was the FIRST sin. They disobeyed a direct order from God Himself. Also, Adam and Eve disobeyed, but what they got out of it was the ability to know right from wrong. They got power. Not an addiction to drugs.
How is it any different? Adam and Eve did something and as a result ended up with the sin (something negative) which was then passed on to their descendants. The pregnant mother did drugs and became addicted (something negative) that addiction was then passed on to her child (her descendant).
How is it any different? Adam and Eve did something and as a result ended up with the sin (something negative) which was then passed on to their descendants. The pregnant mother did drugs and became addicted (something negative) that addiction was then passed on to her child (her descendant).
Now I think I understand correctly. What Adam and Eve did made it so the rest of us would undoubtedly sin. So, yes we payed. And in your comparison, if the baby were to survive, chances are the addiction would overcome it later in life and it would probably do drugs. If caught, it would undoubtedly go to jail. This is all the mothers fault and she should be blamed for it, yet the baby is still punished. Likewise, because of what Adam and Eve did, the chances for us are that we will sin, therefore making us go to Hell. Lucky for us, Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. But that can't be factored into your comparison. If you added the sacrifice part into your comparison, it would be the same.
This is completely different. What Adam and Eve did was the FIRST sin. They disobeyed a direct order from God Himself. Also, Adam and Eve disobeyed, but what they got out of it was the ability to know right from wrong. They got power. Not an addiction to drugs.
Are you trying to suggest that knowledge is a sin?
Not the knowledge. But disobeying a direct order from God? Yeah. Humans were meant to prosper in the Garden of Eden without worries. As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss". Such trivial things as wearing clothes didn't even matter. But now, they do.
Not the knowledge. But disobeying a direct order from God? Yeah. Humans were meant to prosper in the Garden of Eden without worries. As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss". Such trivial things as wearing clothes didn't even matter. But now, they do.
You think cloths are trivial things? Tell that to someone living in a place were the alcohol gets under 30, or the sun shines, or has bugs, or has trees, grass, or anything to that extent, or someone who has gotten shot with an arrow*, or someone who has gotten shot*, or someone who has been in a tank or saved by someone in a tank*
He shouldn't be giving orders he knew would fail then. If he is omniscient then he would know that they would fail. It would be like me asking you to jump over my house. I know you can't do it, so why would I ask?
* I am counting all forms of armor ass cloths, as that is what they are. Armor for knights blocked arrows, Kevlar vests block bullets, and tanks are based of earlier forms of arms.
And in your comparison, if the baby were to survive, chances are the addiction would overcome it later in life and it would probably do drugs. If caught, it would undoubtedly go to jail.
The child doing drugs isn't the mothers fault. This would be his own doing.
the chances for us are that we will sin, therefore making us go to Hell.
The argument isn't that we have a greater disposition for sinning but rather we will be punished for being born with sin regardless of if we continue to act on it or not.
Not the knowledge. But disobeying a direct order from God? Yeah. Humans were meant to prosper in the Garden of Eden without worries. As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss".
This brings up another issue I have touched on before. If they didn't know the difference between doing good and doing bad how would they know not obeying God was bad?
This is why I have compared the situation with leaving a loaded gun in reach of a small child. You can't just tell the child not to touch the gun and expect them to listen. Especially if you add another child who will specifically tell them it's okay to play with.
He shouldn't be giving orders he knew would fail then. If he is omniscient then he would know that they would fail. It would be like me asking you to jump over my house. I know you can't do it, so why would I ask?
God gave man the law knowing man could not live up to his righteousness.
The law revealed to man his lack of righteousness and his need for a Savior.
This brings up another issue I have touched on before. If they didn't know the difference between doing good and doing bad how would they know not obeying God was bad?
A 5 year old knows stealing is wrong. But a 20 year old has a stronger conviction of why it's wrong. That doesn't mean the 5 year old had no idea. They just didn't comprehend the full weight of the consequence.
Also, God told them not too, upon pain of death. Basically, this act was the first act of free will.
Basically, this act was the first act of free will.
Or the first act of temptation. It wasn't really OUR fault, so much as God himself telling them "Hey. It's okay, you can do it if you wanna".
Hey. It's okay, you can do it if you wanna".
Isn't that sort of what free will is all about?
God gave man the law knowing man could not live up to his righteousness.
The law revealed to man his lack of righteousness and his need for a Savior.
So God set us up to fail?
A 5 year old knows stealing is wrong.
I've run into plenty of children who haven't yet learned this.
Also, God told them not too, upon pain of death.
Not much of a threat to people with no experience with pain or death.
Isn't that sort of what free will is all about?
Nope. Free will would be doing something based on your own decisions without any interference. Adam and Eve reeeeally wanted to know what kind of tree that was. They knew that God told them not to. However, when they also tell you it's alright to do it, they will. They will disregard the first order and obey the second, much like a commander giving orders to a private.
much like a commander giving orders to a private.
Except that there are two commanders and the private doesn't know who's in charge?
Not much of a threat to people with no experience with pain or death.
Even the simplest being has the will to survive, and therefore will not do anything to make itself die.(Except for suicides)
And you don't know that they had no experience with pain. It's not like the Bible contains their diaries with everything that they ever did within them.
Even the simplest being has the will to survive, and therefore will not do anything to make itself die.(Except for suicides)
Again how many small children when dealing with say death of a pet for the first time don't realize the implications of that death? Just telling someone with no experience with death they will die isn't much of a threat.
And you don't know that they had no experience with pain. It's not like the Bible contains their diaries with everything that they ever did within them.
You attribute that all negative things in the word are the direct result of this original sin. So since that had not happened anything negative such as pain would not have existed yet. Unless you are going to say God did create such things as pain aka suffering.
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