Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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I would like you to consider this for a moment. Who truly says Lucifer was evil? In all aspects it is the general concensus of the bible. However, isn't the bible nothing more than a propaganda machine of the past? Let us assume both God and Lucifer are real (to me they are not). And then let us further assume God gave everyone free will. Is Lucifer so evil to exercise this gift of free will? Also, in history those who rebel to take control do so with good intention. Is it so evil then to assume that the rebelion of Lucifer was not infact evil as the bible claims. But a GOOD act in the hopes of creating a better world under a better leader?
In Genesis the Serpent was Satan. And the serpent convinced Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge which God specifically told Adam and Eve not to do. Which made the first sin for a human. Also making the Serpent evil and Serpent=Lucifer. And how is Lucifer a better leader when God MADE him?
Thank you Mage and I consider you a friend because we don't have to agree on theology, politics or games to share a mutual respect.
As I friend, I urge you to ask GOD the same questions you've been posing on these threads. GOD is faithful to answer any question that comes from anyone who is sincere. We may not like the answer but He always responds.
I do think for myself. My thoughts have matured beyond the 'what if's' and the maybes but I still ask 'why'.
I've seen the other side of spirituality and I choose to believe that GOD created all things we can see and everything else that require microscopes, telescopes and ultrasounds.
I also believe that science continues to prove just how well GOD created everything. I also believe that politics at times, interferes with the way research receives funding and priority.
Look how far we as a human race have evolved instead of always tearing down the same worn out wallpaper that's already been torn down, bagged up and hauled away.
The most important questions are the ones you refuse to ask GOD.
Joey. Please direct comment to my point of arguement. Also It is as I said the bible is simple propaganda therefore cannot be considered true.
Thats what he did with the angels. And Lucifer(Satan)tried to take over Heaven from God. So it seems theres always a way to do something evil.
So satan has an overpowering desire not to do evil?
God has a plan for all of us and sometimes we won't make sense of it and we're all just part of something bigger.
God's plan often seems like no plan at all. Exactly what is God's plan anyway?
Is this God's plan?
harlequin baby
And i know this is outta order but regarding God being all knowing, we make plans don't we for our future but there is always a small thing that can change it, its kinda like a crossroad. You know whats at the end of it but which one to take? God gave us a choice.
Even so God would know what choices we would make. Or are you saying God makes a plan for us but doesn't know what choices we will make?
MageGrayWolf, I would like to turn your attention to my proposed arguement on the idea of Lucifer.
would like you to consider this for a moment. Who truly says Lucifer was evil? In all aspects it is the general concensus of the bible. However, isn't the bible nothing more than a propaganda machine of the past? Let us assume both God and Lucifer are real (to me they are not). And then let us further assume God gave everyone free will. Is Lucifer so evil to exercise this gift of free will? Also, in history those who rebel to take control do so with good intention. Is it so evil then to assume that the rebelion of Lucifer was not infact evil as the bible claims. But a GOOD act in the hopes of creating a better world under a better leader?
Then share, but if you say something that doesn't logically make an sense or claim something incredible to be true then expect to be called out on it.
And this is why science and religion is on a different realm and scope in reality.
As I said this free will argument is tripe.
This still raises the question of why God wouldn't just instill a strong desire not to go against God. This would not be the removal of free will since we would still be free to commit evil, we would just not want to.
I think he installed morality and conscious into our heads. Otherwise we'd all be killing people. I think that was at least Gods way of instilling our belief system into him.
He makes bad people just to see if they will get on the correct path? This goes against God being all knowing for one, or God is intentionally allowing people to exist he knows will fails and punishing them for it. Seems down right mean considering what happens if they don't, and I question God's desires considering his seemingly clear atrocities.
=/ and here we go again... I think we've gone over this quite a while now
Since I'm siding with Beast here on you being a troll
Look ill try to stop, but i basically come from one of those families who enjoy to be loud mouthed. calling someone a d'ck, well lets just say its not a big deal. I can understand thow on here how it might be =/. So ill apologize if you took offense to the stuff i said before... I basically keep taking these things as a direct attack, so u kinda gotta sorta understand?
Depends on the perspective. Christians think Atheists are ignorant, and vice versa. In this sense, ignorance is always hypocritical.
I have to agree on this one. Its basically true. I suppose thow ill be more open minded though, and try and understand where you are coming from...
After the dudes sometime in the DArk Ages started the "Lets assume that God is real!" game.
Only for the christians thow. We weren't exactly forcing it on everyone.
Right after evangalists stop, and advocation for intelligent design in education stops, and so on and so forth.
Well i mean i dont think ive ever tried to shove my beliefs down your throat thow, or tried to convince you to believe in God.. Im trying to say why I believe in him.. I admit maybe a lil bit angrayy..
In a cruddy anological sense, atheists bounce arguments off their shoulders. Christians sorta let arguments fall on the ground before walking away, or before stomping on the arguments.
Again i sorta tried to argue. I haven't tried to just let these arguements get stomped on by m own footsteps.. Ive argued about it... I dont enjoy leaving a thread on the spot without at least trying to put my ideas in.. But people leave, when they give a full hearted answer and then someone says o its been done, so your whole arguement is pointless. Thats what makes people leave and think they win.
And now we return to the question of: " Why would evil exist in the first place, if God was all mighty and all knowing, and essentially had the capability to create a perfect world without evil?"
Evil didn't exist. It was created by selfish men and women wanting to become great. Thats how evil came to be. But then again our definition of evil can be different from the spiritual level of Evil. Who knows what evil can be in the realm of the supernatural... Or even if there is such a thing. Evil could only be a concept designed by man, for man.
As I friend, I urge you to ask GOD the same questions you've been posing on these threads. GOD is faithful to answer any question that comes from anyone who is sincere. We may not like the answer but He always responds.
Well then consider this a formal invitation for God to answer any and all questions I have posed. While I'm waiting for him to get around it I will continue to ask them here.
My thoughts have matured beyond the 'what if's' and the maybes but I still ask 'why'.
The what ifs and maybes can often help come to answer of the whys. Question everything, even the things you think you know for sure.
I've seen the other side of spirituality and I choose to believe that GOD created all things we can see and everything else that require microscopes, telescopes and ultrasounds.
And why did you choose to believe something when you have no proof that it's real? If yo do have sort of personal experience that convinced you how can you be reasonably sure that it was indeed God and not something else since (being personal) you had no means of confirming the validity of that experience?
I also believe that science continues to prove just how well GOD created everything. I also believe that politics at times, interferes with the way research receives funding and priority.
It also continually demonstrates that even if there is a God he wasn't required.
would like you to consider this for a moment. Who truly says Lucifer was evil? In all aspects it is the general concensus of the bible. However, isn't the bible nothing more than a propaganda machine of the past? Let us assume both God and Lucifer are real (to me they are not). And then let us further assume God gave everyone free will. Is Lucifer so evil to exercise this gift of free will? Also, in history those who rebel to take control do so with good intention. Is it so evil then to assume that the rebelion of Lucifer was not infact evil as the bible claims. But a GOOD act in the hopes of creating a better world under a better leader?
This thought has crossed my mind. Perhaps Lucifer (again assuming these characters are real) saw the same issues I'm pointing out about God appearing to be a petty blood thirsty tyrant and tried to do something about it. Of course loosing, history ends up being written by the victor and Lucifer get's written in as a bad guy.
And now we return to the question of: " Why would evil exist in the first place, if God was all mighty and all knowing, and essentially had the capability to create a perfect world without evil?"
Sin began when after Adam and Eve where shown and told not to eat of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the tree of Life were tempted by Satan and they both ate of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This first sin was caused by disobeying GOD. Being tempted isn't a sin but thinking how great it would be and acting it out in your mind is a sin whether or not you actually, physically commit the sin.
GOD is creating a perfect earth and new heavens for those of us who believe. It's in the future.
Well all of us aren't considering the fact of Satan, just like God he can speak to us (kind of like thoughts) and it influences us in ways. If Satan wasn't really there, there would still be sin. And something all of us, including myself, sometimes fail to remember God has a plan for all of us and sometimes we won't make sense of it and we're all just part of something bigger. And i know this is outta order but regarding God being all knowing, we make plans don't we for our future but there is always a small thing that can change it, its kinda like a crossroad. You know whats at the end of it but which one to take? God gave us a choice.
Don't apologize, you didn't 'get anything out of order'. You can't go wrong or say anything wrong if you continue to pray, study God's word and speak from your heart.
I would like you to consider this for a moment. Who truly says Lucifer was evil? In all aspects it is the general concensus of the bible. However, isn't the bible nothing more than a propaganda machine of the past? Let us assume both God and Lucifer are real (to me they are not). And then let us further assume God gave everyone free will. Is Lucifer so evil to exercise this gift of free will? Also, in history those who rebel to take control do so with good intention. Is it so evil then to assume that the rebelion of Lucifer was not infact evil as the bible claims. But a GOOD act in the hopes of creating a better world under a better leader?
Let's talk about the reliability of the Bible first, otherwise Satan wouldn't exist without GOD, GOD's creation, angels and heaven.
Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.
Psalm 48:!4
For this God is our God for ever and ever; he will be our guide even to the end.
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Genesis 3:1
'Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.'
Job 1:6-7
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
Matthew 4:1(2)
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
Mark 1:12-13(2)
At once the Spirit sent Him out into the desert, and He was in the desert 40 days, being tempted by Satan.
John 12:31
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.
If you truly believe the Bible is nothing more than a book full of propaganda then there's nothing to discuss.
In Genesis the Serpent was Satan. And the serpent convinced Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge which God specifically told Adam and Eve not to do. Which made the first sin for a human. Also making the Serpent evil and Serpent=Lucifer. And how is Lucifer a better leader when God MADE him?
Just a tiny correction so that everyone is clear. Satan can only tempt, he's the best, that's what he does.
There were 2 trees and Adam and Eve saw and were told not to eat of them. One was the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad, which Adam and Eve did sin by disobeying God and eating its fruit.
The other tree was the Tree of Life. This is the tree that God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of now that they possessed the knowledge of good and bad because if they were to also eat of the tree of Life they would be immortal.
It's been argued in this thread that God didn't let us live up to our full potential when He 'booted Adam and Eve out of Eden'. The Bible promises that in the future we will be immortal.
Just a tiny correction so that everyone is clear.
Thanks for correcting me.
Don't apologize, you didn't 'get anything out of order'. You can't go wrong or say anything wrong if you continue to pray, study God's word and speak from your heart.
And also thanks for backing me up there and encouraging me.
Ya'll need to quite typing so much, I last got on yesterday, and there are four more pages, . I will start my conversation new on pg. 94
Awww, did I piss the little kiddy off?
Exactly now wave wave GOD DAMN WAVE
oops sorry i accidentally entered comment too early.
but really we need a truce lets just debate about how much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood or something??
BTW what is effed up about armor games it's not normal with the blue things on the side anymore
It's messed up for me too, except I can only see text, no pictures.
Being tempted isn't a sin but thinking how great it would be and acting it out in your mind is a sin whether or not you actually, physically commit the sin.
So God endorses thought crimes as well?
Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.
God has said we should be punished for something someone else has done, slavery (unless it's his peeps) is just fine, and we should kill certain people.
If this came from anyone else you would not consider them to be that right.
The other tree was the Tree of Life. This is the tree that God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of now that they possessed the knowledge of good and bad because if they were to also eat of the tree of Life they would be immortal.
So God took away the possibility of us gaining immortality then and then said you get it "sometime later". That just sounds like a cheap dodgy move to me.
Also isn't this interfering with our free will? Sure God has no problem not interfering ("because he loves us" when it's something that will destroy us, but when it comes to something that will prolong our life he steps in and puts a stop to it, WTF?
This wouldn't be the last time in the Bible God steps in to stop us from achieving goals on our own.
So God endorses thought crimes as well?
If you think of something, then you are thinking of the possibility of doing it. This can lead you to commit the act. So, thinking of an act can have the same weight as doing the act.
slavery (unless it's his peeps) is just fine, and we should kill certain people.
If this came from anyone else you would not consider them to be that right.
God never condoned slavery. He saved the israelites because they were his people and they were enslaved. God may have started abolishionist movements, he may have not cared. We will never know. It never says we should kill certain people. You are refering to Gods acts as if he were Hitler, or another one of the dictators that killed millions of innocent people for "the right of their race/country."
So God took away the possibility of us gaining immortality then and then said you get it "sometime later". That just sounds like a cheap dodgy move to me.
God took away immortality so human kind could cherish life, not take it for granted. One can cherish life and wait for immortality at death.
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