Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
| 1849 | 255405 |
Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
- 1,849 Replies
This question can backfire on one in many ways. Are you just going to sit back and say that you are right because your creed says so?
Could have sworn that wolf had something on the last page that wasn't counter-argued. Atheists have creeds? I thought we had theories that always were built up and if were conflicted with anything else cast out? Theories are "maybe this happens, let's check" and beliefs are "This happens".
These religious people just have no arguement against what I have proposed. They refuse to do as I have kindly asked and lay aside belief for a moment. As I said before: "Reason stems from logic and logic cannot be subjected to the heart, for then the judgements are clouded by passion. Belief is that passion."
Wolf, I'm not silent because I'm conceited or a 'super Christian'. I'm silent because of my personal experience that has a connection to the creation story only because of Jesus' lineage.
God made his presence known to me in a real way and the timing was supernatural.
For me, I already have my proof, but it would be great if I could find the facts to back that up. Not for my sake, but for yours.
God made his presence known to me in a real way and the timing was supernatural.
How could timing be supernatural?
How could timing be supernatural?
The same evening I had my experience, was the same evening a curse was placed on me. I didn't learn of this curse until the nest day, it didn't manifest until the week-end. By that time I was changing from the old confused me to the new, more confident me.
The same evening I had my experience, was the same evening a curse was placed on me. I didn't learn of this curse until the nest day, it didn't manifest until the week-end.
This sounds more coincidental. Also it's likely the curse only took effect because you learned about it Otherwise it's unlikely you would have related the events that occurred to being cursed.
By that time I was changing from the old confused me to the new, more confident me.
This sounds more like emotional changed influenced by fear (from what I remember you telling me rightly so) but just because the new position was more comfortable for you doesn't validate it as being true.
These religious people just have no arguement against what I have proposed. They refuse to do as I have kindly asked and lay aside belief for a moment.
Your conceited stereotypical attitude is one that make atheist be looked upon is bad ways. I so kindly asked for you to provide information a few pages back to support your side of the argument, and you told me you did not own a bible. Your opinion is based on what you think others will approve, you can't back it up, and yet you want me to back myself up. I have provided ample information, and you have yet to provide any. How do you have the audacity to do this?
To many my personal beliefs are far more irrational than those of the church
Agreed, they are irrational.
This sounds more like emotional changed influenced by fear
I am a saved christian, and I have yet to change who I am. I believe God wants one as they are, not an irrational faith freak. You have to relate to the person you are trying to help believe in God, not scare them.
This sounds more coincidental. Also it's likely the curse only took effect because you learned about it Otherwise it's unlikely you would have related the events that occurred to being cursed.
I know what it sounds like. That perhaps the subconscious was expecting 'something' to happen. I agree that I'm leaving a lot of the total experience out of this thread but it isn't to deceive anyone. I'm just stating the basics.
This sounds more like emotional changed influenced by fear (from what I remember you telling me rightly so) but just because the new position was more comfortable for you doesn't validate it as being true.
I would agree with your response except that I had no knowledge of 'when this would take place.
By the time I was home from the hospital, I began to start putting the pieces together which took 6 months to totally regain total memory.
The emotion of fear causes us to do things in an irrational way.
All I can say is this total experience has had a profound change on me and the way I view my relationships with others. Before this experience, I didn't care that much about others as I was the center of my universe.
I am a saved christian, and I have yet to change who I am. I believe God wants one as they are, not an irrational faith freak. You have to relate to the person you are trying to help believe in God, not scare them.[i]
You're right, God takes us as new believers just as we are.
The Bible also says that someone like me, who had turned away from my faith runs the risk of having my life cut short in order to save the soul. I will provide this verse(s) a little later.
My experience was a wake up call to remind me that I was looking for Jesus Christ in all of the wrong places, that I can't serve two masters and to get off the fence.
I learned these lessons is a short amount of time, getting me ready for the near future of becoming care-giver to all of my family.
I believe God wants one as they are, not an irrational faith freak.
Then why is it God requires you believe without proof and considers those who do this to be in better standing then those who ask for evidence first? It would seem if God doesn't want a bunch of irrational faith freaks then just providing some objective evidence for his existence would be the best thing to do. Otherwise any belief based on faith is irrational.
You have to relate to the person you are trying to help believe in God, not scare them.
In this case it wasn't the Christian church scaring her it was the situation she was coming out of. I know I don't have the whole picture but let's look at what's been said here. She believed she had a curse placed on her and she had gone to the hospital at some point (for what reason we don't know but I know I don't go to hospitals unless there is something wrong with me or someone close to me). These sounds like very scary, life threatening situations. That she believe was fixed (at least in part) by joining the Christian church. Thus an emotionally influenced decision based on fear, or from her perspective she left God, had all this bad stuff happen, then came back to God.
I would agree with your response except that I had no knowledge of 'when this would take place.
By the time I was home from the hospital, I began to start putting the pieces together which took 6 months to totally regain total memory.
The emotion of fear causes us to do things in an irrational way.
So you had some sort of experience then later came to a conclusion. I don't see how that changes what I said.
Im back and Im atheist now, like to thank Magegray nad Desert Eagle
Then why is it God requires you believe without proof and considers those who do this to be in better standing then those who ask for evidence first? It would seem if God doesn't want a bunch of irrational faith freaks then just providing some objective evidence for his existence would be the best thing to do. Otherwise any belief based on faith is irrational.
Well technically its not wrong to ask for evidence, just to ignore said "evidence".
Your conceited stereotypical attitude is one that make
atheist be looked upon is bad ways. I so kindly asked for you to provide information a few pages back to support your side of the argument, and you told me you did not own a bible. Your opinion is based on what you think others will approve, you can't back it up, and yet you want me to back myself up. I have provided ample information, and you have yet to provide any. How do you have the audacity to do this?
To Adios:
You back me into a corner by stating the only proof you will accept is the proof that only you agree to accept. Am I so conceited then when I turn the tables and do the same to you? I am not one to sit idly by and allow these things to go unpunished. Now, the arguement I have proposed does not require me to present any evidence on my behalf for what I have proposed is mere hypothetical thinking, something to engage you into setting aside the passion that is your belief and for once to think rationally. Until you truly adress my arguement instead of these underhanded, round about personal attacks I have nothing to prove or disprove.
To Wajor:
I appreciate the sentiment of you wanting to save my soul, however for all appearances I am a good person. Should my disbelief in god be the thing that sends me to hell (asuming that your doctrine is correct) then your god is one where I would not regret my choices.
Otherwise any belief based on faith is irrational.
While on some level I agree with this, I think the better position is to hold that certain people can have rational beliefs about God. There are plenty of people with amazing personal experiences of God's love and a deep relationship with Him.
While I fully believe these experiences aren't real, it's impossible to convince these people that their feelings are wrong.
So they have a belief about God, and they have reasons (justification) for their beliefs. Ultimately these are faith-based beliefs, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're irrational.
Now, those who blindly accept the notion of God without any evidence and who follow whatever pastor happens to be ranting at the time - these people, I think we can all agree, are irrational.
To many my personal beliefs are far more irrational than those of the church
Agreed, they are irrational.
To adios:
Statements like this (calling MageGreyWolf's beliefs irrational) is bullyish, offensive, and just plain wrong. He clearly is an intelligent person and produces cogent arguments.
If you're just going to hard-line the discussion and ignore all beliefs that contradict your own, then go somewhere else. This is a place for enlightened discussion, not bigoted hate-mongering or flaming.
It's oblivious Christians such as yourself that can't even imagine a different point of view that make me want to punch people right in the middle of the face.
Either join in the actual discussion at hand or GTFO.
To adios:
Statements like this (calling MageGreyWolf's beliefs irrational) is bullyish, offensive, and just plain wrong. He clearly is an intelligent person and produces cogent arguments.
If you're just going to hard-line the discussion and ignore all beliefs that contradict your own, then go somewhere else. This is a place for enlightened discussion, not bigoted hate-mongering or flaming.
It's oblivious Christians such as yourself that can't even imagine a different point of view that make me want to punch people right in the middle of the face.
Either join in the actual discussion at hand or GTFO.
He was refering to me. He seems to believe that such arguements are justified. I openly admit many of my beliefs seem irational, but they are mine and I shall defend them just as will anyone. However, I have been begging for a response to a proposed arguement I have made. Instead of adressing what I am arguing he demands proof and resorts to personal attacks.
I know what it sounds like. That perhaps the subconscious was expecting 'something' to happen. I agree that I'm leaving a lot of the total experience out of this thread but it isn't to deceive anyone. I'm just stating the basics.
Would it be the same if a Vodo priest cursed you? I doubt it.
My experience was a wake up call to remind me that I was looking for Jesus Christ in all of the wrong places, that I can't serve two masters and to get off the fence.
I learned these lessons is a short amount of time, getting me ready for the near future of becoming care-giver to all of my family.
You could say that, but according to Christianity Jesus is everywhere thus nowhere would be the wrong place.
And one more thing I would like to point out, "A house divided against itself can not stand". That comes from the Bible, ironically, as Christianity is a house divided against itself. If your god is true, then why is there so many divisions of Christianity?
BTW My other computer is in the shop, witch is good for all you idiots who can only insult my spelling as this one has spell check.
Thread is locked!