ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.Crazy Horse Monument

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Caucheka
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Caucheka
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Most of you should have heard at some point in your life that they are carving a giant monument of Chief Crazy Horse in the mountains near Mount Rushmore. At first, I thought it was a great thing, but after hearing a few things about it, I feel like this is a serious bad move. Before I go any further here is a picture.
http://www.tracks-trails.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/0/335909cd3e59fc8ace6ed030cc0b7c80/files/crazy_horse_memorial.jpg

The small figurine in the foreground is what it should look like when finished, and they've been working on it for over 60 years.


Anyway, onto the facts.

first, take a look at the picture. If I asked you just now who it was of, you would reply with Crazy Horse. However, Crazy Horse was so adamant about not having his picture taken that there is literally NO images, whether they be pictures or paintings, of Crazy Horse himself. So, not only do they not know if they are close to what he actually looked like, making the memorial kinda goes against his wishes to not be photographed.

The guy who is in charge of the project, Korczak Ziolkowski, was also the man who sculpted Rushmore. He decided to do the Crazy Horse memorial as a response to the controversy surrounding Mt Rushmore. It kind of misses the point about why defacing mountains in the middle of sacred Native American territory is a bad idea.

The actual pose of the statue is of an actual moment of history, in where a white man asks Crazy Horse "Where are your lands now?", to which Crazy Horse responded "My lands are where my dead lie buried."
The statue depicts Crazy Horse pointing, apparently to where his lands are. But hand gestures don't exactly mean the same thing in every culture. To most Native Americans, pointing a finger is considered "rude and aggressive."

now, knowing all of this, do you still feel the same way about the monument than you did 10 minutes ago?

I'll end with a quote by Lame Deer, a Lakota medicine man.

"The whole idea of making a beautiful wild mountain into a statue of him is a pollution of the landscape. It is against the spirit of Crazy Horse."
  • 25 Replies
xBHWKxUSAx
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xBHWKxUSAx
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I read about this before. Oh well, it's the the thought that counts.

Caucheka
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Caucheka
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it's the the thought that counts.


there are very few conditions in which that statement is true.
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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The small figurine in the foreground is what it should look like when finished, and they've been working on it for over 60 years.


No joke. The statue took a much shorter time. Why the slow process? Mount Rushmore only took a couple years to fully sculpt.

If Crazy Horse so wished that he did not leave his image, why do so? You can make a memorial/biography/remembrance something without having a portrait/picture/photo of him.
Caucheka
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Caucheka
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No joke. The statue took a much shorter time. Why the slow process? Mount Rushmore only took a couple years to fully sculpt.


i havnt the slightest idea.

If Crazy Horse so wished that he did not leave his image, why do so? You can make a memorial/biography/remembrance something without having a portrait/picture/photo of him.


most of the native americans seem to have a problem with it. and this monument is for them.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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*shrugs* meh I don't care much either way. It's just a sculpture.

Quina
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Quina
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I've visited the memorial in person. When he was figuring out who to carve in the mountain, Korczak Ziolkowski talked to Native American cheifs about who they beileved should represent them. The agreement they came to was Crazy Horse. Mount Rushmore was suposed to be the full busts of the presidents, not just the heads, but the government pulled the plug on the project due to how costly it was.

The rest of the museum on the grounds beneath the mountain will eventually become a college for Native Americans, with the museum as a centerpiece. The whole project is founded privately, with no government involvement at all due to how much trouble the government is with founding projects like this and such.

There are issues as you have pointed out, but look at the big picture, like why it's being built. Native Americans are being involved in the process. They are the focus of something that should benefit them.

Moe
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Moe
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Mount Rushmore was suposed to be the full busts of the presidents, not just the heads, but the government pulled the plug on the project due to how costly it was.


Actually the rock under their heads is too unstable and they were unable to carve it.


As for Crazy Horse, I wish to see it finished, but mostly because I first saw it 17 years ago and then again 10 years ago. I can barely notice any difference, but if I remember correctly its just one person working on it.
nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
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i heard it was a little of both moe, and this is a damn rock, carve it if you want, in a thousand years what will it matter, its art, and it is in his constitutional rights to do whatever he wants as long as its not grossly offensive, which doesn't seem to matter to most americans anymore. but all in all it seems its gunna be a while b4 its finished anyway, we have plenty of time to decide whether its moral or not.

Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
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*shrug* It's kinda funny, if you think about it. We(white folks) feel guilty about what we did to the Native Americans, so we build a huge monument on their sacred mountain that is basically an affront to all of them. It is just so ironic it makes me laugh.
And also; it's ridiculously expensive right?
I think of it as like putting a giant statue of Moses on Zion and Moses is flipping the bird, and it cost "HOLY EFFING CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY!" amounts of money to build. That's how I think of this statue.

nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
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still, freedom..... it counts

Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
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Huh? Oh, I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to build it...I'm saying it's a bad idea, but I also get that they can if they want to.

nevetsthereaper
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nevetsthereaper
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right right, this goes with the mosque 'near' ground zero. its his right. i wish we had a native americans opinion in this damn forum.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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The actual pose of the statue is of an actual moment of history, in where a white man asks Crazy Horse "Where are your lands now?", to which Crazy Horse responded "My lands are where my dead lie buried."
The statue depicts Crazy Horse pointing, apparently to where his lands are. But hand gestures don't exactly mean the same thing in every culture. To most Native Americans, pointing a finger is considered "rude and aggressive."


So basically this statue is to the native americans similar as if they would build a statue of a white man showing it's middle finger to the world?
I join with Hyper, this is really ironical *runs off and rofl's in a corner*
piester22
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piester22
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No joke. The statue took a much shorter time. Why the slow process? Mount Rushmore only took a couple years to fully sculpt.


It's privately funded...not goverment

The actual pose of the statue is of an actual moment of history, in where a white man asks Crazy Horse "Where are your lands now?", to which Crazy Horse responded "My lands are where my dead lie buried."
The statue depicts Crazy Horse pointing, apparently to where his lands are. But hand gestures don't exactly mean the same thing in every culture. To most Native Americans, pointing a finger is considered "rude and aggressive."


Yeah, but the native americans that were asked about it didnt seem to care that he was pointing so mabye it isnt all the rude xD and they were showed that sculpture before they started it...
DoctorHouseNCIS
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DoctorHouseNCIS
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Good statue, good point, but I don't understand the deeper meaning in all of this

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