Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
- 428 Replies
@Kasic (on page 40) the church does not pay their missionaries. Most, if not all, missionaries save up and pay their own ways - i.e. clothing, food, room & board (if applicable), travel expenses. Does that change your perspective of missionaries at all?
Not really. If anything, it makes it seem even worse, not only do they go around bothering people, but they are also wasting their money.
We do keep pretty good records as a church.
Can we see these records?
You're also assuming that everyone is busy all the time, even when they're home - or at least it seems that way to me.
It's safe to say that almost no one is going to welcome an unwanted intteruption which pretty much says, "Hey, you're wrong and what we're saying is right, you should join us"
you are not obligated to even answer the door.
You don't know who's at the door until you answer it.
Watch E1337's video, if you don't want to listen to the rant, start at 2:30
@E1337 You're still a martyr if you defend yourself and die anyways. Doesn't change a thing.
MageGrayWolf, you are right. We accept both the Old Testament and the New Testament as far as they are properly translated, and the Apocrypha has been quoted more than once by general authorities. Now, when I say "as far as they are properly translated," I mean that people throughout history have changed things or misinterpreted them in the bible, distorting the true meaning. We believe that Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim to translate parts of the Bible, some of which translations are in the footnotes of "our" Bibles, which can be read without the translations. We believe the King James Version of the Bible to be the closest to correct version of the Bible.
The version with unicorns? I love that version. But may I ask why it has unicorns and corn in it? If that is the closest translation, you must be using Bablefish.
@MageGrayWolf (page 35) the trolling part was the "on a site with games". Again, I mostly ignored that. Everything else you said was logical.
Then you missed the point I was making entirely. Your argument against porn was that it can be addictive. Internet use and video games can be addicting as well. So I had to ask what you were doing using two things together that a person can become addicted to if you wanted to avoid things that can be addictive.
@314d1 Pro tip: It helps to not mock someone when you're trying to say nobody's mocking them. Also, trying to say something is ridiculous by mocking it gets you nowhere.
And you wonder why I don't answer your questions. Your problem is you mix a perfectly legitimate question with a mocking statement. I simply will not take you seriously until you start taking me seriously.
@Kasic
I'll watch E1337's video when I get home from work.
You do make some good points.
About the records, I'll have to look. That's one thing I haven't ever really looked at - whether they're available. I know they exist, and I know that many of the numbers are reported every 6 months in General Conference, but I don't know if the actual records are available to the public. Of course, personal records are not available (for obvious reasons). The other records are much more likely to be available. I'll see what I can do.
By the way, for those of you who want to see what the life of a missionary can be like, watch "The Best Two Years". It's an accurate depiction of what life is like.
And for the record, I'm going to ignore 314d1 until further notice. So don't start wondering why his questions aren't being answered. I'll answer them once I feel like he's taking me seriously and treating me as an equal.
I really hope they submit button get's moved this is like the third time this week... Anyway...
@MageGrayWolf (on page 39) Yeah, I was afraid that would happen. Often, the people are the major turnoff for an investigator. In some places, the missionaries have to tell people to greet the investigators so they feel welcome (assuming the missionaries know the investigators are coming). Other places will welcome newcomers immediately, and make them feel welcome. I try to make it a point to do the second.
From what I have gather I get the impression the Mormon groups where I live work under the former rather than the latter.
It would defeat the purpose of faith if he were to just come down and show himself to all the world.
So what? Showing himself would be a far better tool. It's like saying a machine gun defeats the purpose of carrying a musket into battle.
Also, it's a ton more than a handful. We have thousands of missionaries in several countries.
I was speaking on a global scale compared to the entire worlds population. By that scale even several thousand missionaries is a small handful.
God coming down himself and making everyone one single religion would defeat the purpose of Agency and Accountability.
How? Regardless of if I see or not see God my actions are still my own and I would still have to be held accountable for those actions. The only thing that would change would be that I would no longer be an atheist. There isn't even a guarantee I would decide to join up and follow God as I might not find this beings code of conduct to be worthy of devotion.
@314d1 Pro tip: It helps to not mock someone when you're trying to say nobody's mocking them.
I am not trying to say no one is mocking you, I am trying to say that you are believing in an outdated stupid ideals that make no since in the modern world. By mocking you.
Also, trying to say something is ridiculous by mocking it gets you nowhere.
It is actually one of the most effective means of breaking people away from religion. Just look at Family Guy.
And you wonder why I don't answer your questions. Your problem is you mix a perfectly legitimate question with a mocking statement. I simply will not take you seriously until you start taking me seriously.
Dude. You have magic underwear, I should be the one not taking you seriously. Now why do you believe in the version with unicorns and corn? The KJV has both. That is serious.
Just a curiosity, what is your explanation about the bible saying that PI = 3 ?
@MageGrayWolf you ninja posted. Nice one.
I know what your point was. Put simply, I'd rather be addicted to games than to pornography. Though I'm also the kind of person who gets bored after so long playing a game, so I don't worry much about that. I'd rather not find out how well I could resist a pornography addiction.
@gaboloth: where does it say that? Reference please.
@314d1 and here I was thinking I would ignore you.
You're missing the point. You took a serious question and turned it into a mockery. You may not realize that you're doing so, but you are. The KJV also mentions dragons. Obviously the bible has a lot of symbolism in it.
@MageGrayWolf ninja'd again! XD
I'm sorry to hear that the Mormons in your area operate under the former. I really dislike people like that.
I'll get to your second and last arguments later.
Yeah, compared to the world as a whole, it is a handful. I misinterpreted. My mistake.
You're missing the point. You took a serious question and turned it into a mockery. You may not realize that you're doing so, but you are. The KJV also mentions dragons. Obviously the bible has a lot of symbolism in it.
So how do you tell what is a metaphor and what isn't? A dragon is a metaphor, according to that post, but is the magic man in the sky a metaphor? Jesus a metaphor? How do you tell?
And that wouldn't explain the corn, which was in America at the time these bronze age men where killing each other in the middle east.
You took a serious question and turned it into a mockery. You may not realize that you're doing so, but you are. The KJV also mentions dragons. Obviously the bible has a lot of symbolism in it.
How is there symbolism in Pi=3? Seems pretty straight forward to me.
How is there symbolism in Pi=3? Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Maybe what is meant is that not everything has to be exact and that somethings are better when they are not too specific. Just my guess.
Maybe what is meant is that not everything has to be exact and that somethings are better when they are not too specific. Just my guess.
Well what it boils down to is...
Pi=3 --> Incorrect = Not god inspired --> puts everything else into Bible into possible category = not 100% reliable off the bat.
And yes, i'd also like to know also, how do you tell if it's symbolic or not? I can think of 1000 symbolic meanings for "the resurrection" of Jesus, how do you know what's supposed to be literal or not? Wouldn't god, if he was giving his word, make it not confusing? You'd think so anyways, considering the souls of everyone are on the line according to religion...
Wouldn't god, if he was giving his word, make it not confusing? You'd think so anyways, considering the souls of everyone are on the line according to religion...
It's difficult to say because the translations from different languages changes the meanings of some words and could throw off entire meanings. Also it's not exactly Gods word it's people telling their story. You also have to think of biases because they factor in as well. All in all the ambiguity of it causes many problems as no one knows how to interpret it correctly, causing everyone to think their interpretation is correct.
Wouldn't god, if he was giving his word, make it not confusing?
Well have you even looked some of the stuff you think is confusing. It's not confusing if you study it, or een make an effort to understand. Yes there are things that are unclear to me, but that is why I go to church every Sunday, to learn. I study and hope to know more things every time I read something.
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