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But by letting the illegals become citizens we would be encouraging people to cross our borders illegally

I think The U.S.A. needs to make the test easier so more people can come to America easier. But i Think Mexicans shouldnt be able to get to America illegaly and get all the benefits of being an American without paying taxes.

I agree I think we should send all the Mexicans back to Mexico!

ah whats the point either they take one day to be illegal citizens or two years to live here legally
does it matter

Yes it does matter. Illegal immagrants enjoy citzens right but without the downfalls, taxes and stuff. That is an entirly racist comment from Craze and I disagree with it. As many people have said we are a land based on immagrants if we turn back immagrants now we are turning back what we have said for hundreds of years and is inscribed on the the statue of liberty "Give me your poor, your weary," It continues but I don't know the rest. Now should the immagrants be allowed to stay as non-citizens, no but don't kick them out give them a chance to become the citizen they want to be.

Illegals enjoy the citizens' rights? Now I'm no US resident but I was under the impression this was not the case at all. Rather, illegals don't have any rights the citizens have, including access to everything related to the public infrastructure, seeing as if they did try, they'd be picked up as illegals and deported, yes?

There's a reason illegal immigrants form the lowest strata of the labor market: in order to sustain themselves they must earn and be subject to exploitation by parties interested in keeping their own illegal activities under the radar from public watchdogs.

Now I'm not trying to create sympathy for illegal immigrants (in fact I'm rather neutral about the whole issue, as usual), but that seems to me a more realistic portrayal of the reality.

Finally, to say that letting illegals become citizens encourage more illegal immigration would be too simplistic. We've been talking about the various strategies that would also have to be employed to defend the rights of more people in accordance with the American constitutional ideals, in channeling people away from illegal, and towards legal immigration.

I don't think we should give them a pass to citizenship. I know they have bad lives and all but they gotta line up like the other people trying to immigrate to America.

@Strop,

Basically the issue is here that illegals are in the country gaining some of the benefits of the same people who pay taxes. The roads they drive, the police they rely on for public safety, and the military that protects their country reaps no benefit from their individual contribution through tax money. Yes, they get restrained from gaining legal employment and face exploitation through low-wage/long-hour jobs but there are still benefits to be gained.

As I said before, compromise on both sides of the argument is the only good way to solve this problem. But it's a hard choice... granting amnesty gives the illusion that "it's okay that you're here illegally, we forgive you" while kicking all illegal immigrants out gives the illusion that "we don't want you here so get out."

Okay, points well taken John, though I would be ever so slightly hesitant on the 'ublic safety' (not because I'm anti-police, but because illegals would presumably wish to avoid dealing with the police altogether...but the issue is more complicated than this, of course).

What I'm interested to see is if there's any alternative takes on the "illegals constituting pressure on the labor market"- seeing as they'll squeeze out the availability of legally regulated jobs, which affects the wage rates at the low end of the scale. This is the kind of rationale employed by most traditional economists as I understand it, but I was wondering if there was another way to look at it from an economics perspective.

I am of the opinion that if you're doing such a bad job of running your own country that people are willing to leave it by the thousands, then you no longer get to be a country.

Mexico would make a great 51st state and the quality of life for ALL of Mexico would be greatly improved in the long run.

And the new southern land border would be much smaller.

Now that's a suggestion I haven't heard before...interesting though.

What's the history of Mexico, how does it relate to the US? I wonder how such a move would go down on the world stage :P

...Bender would probably not have his HECHO EN MEXICO brand on the inside of his chestplate!

Mexico has several issues from poverty to drug-related crime. Given that Mexico is also has a rising labour market, I could imagine that some of these problems may start to die down over the next few years. I also don't think we can take Mexico, I don't think it works that way .

Yes I also agree with mr3

Before we do anything I believe should close up that border so more don't come in

Several points to respond to, I hope I don't get too long-winded...

First, I support immigration. All of the immigration I know are intelligent and hard-working, and have made America a better place. It's ILLEGAL immigration that I oppose.

English is not the national language. In fact, it isn't even the official language of any states AFAIK. Having forms in Spanish and other languages is just practical. Besides, we Americans should work to learn other languages; there are too many benefits to do otherwise.

Economically, the cheap labor is quite helpful. People complain about immigrants taking jobs, but seriously, the jobs they take are working the fields and landscaping. These are not prime jobs. They aren't the jobs you get to support a family. They are way below the poverty line. If they were taking all the manager roles and you couldn't get promoted, I could see your point, but realistically, Americans lose jobs because they are lazy or uneducated, not because of immigration.

Labor-wise, there would probably be quite a crash in the market if all the illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared. They do help the economy more than hurt it. It is true that they don't pay income tax (which is illegal for their employers too but nobody seems to want to go after them), but they also use far fewer public services. Many of them don't have cars so they don't use the roads. They don't call the cops when a crime occurs because they are afraid of getting deported. They stay home when they get injured instead of going to the hospital. From a humanitarian standpoint, we are killing off the illegals through our policies. They keep coming because it's better than what's at home.

A fence won't keep them out. They'll hide in trucks, scale the fence, take boats through the ocean, or bribe officials to get in. The fence is just a waste of money.

From a security standpoint, illegals do tend to commit more crime than the average American, but that has more to do with them being poor than being immigrants. IIRC, they cause less crime than other people in their income bracket. I can see how this could be an issue for terrorism, but that threat is greatly exaggerated.

In short, I can't say I blame the illegals. America is a great country after all, and sure beats the country they live in now. I still think they should have to wait like everyone else, and current illegals should probably have to pay a fine or be deported to become legal, but I don't see why we don't streamline the process and welcome more immigrants to america.