Posted Mar 6, '12 at 8:32pm
Care to justify the crusades?
Usually personal experience of reciprocation. You take someone's toy. Later, someone takes your toy. You feel bad. You realize that it's wrong to take toys. You hit someone. Someone hits you. You realize it's bad to hit.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 10:25pm
Then you'll just do whatever you please because it can be excusable? So if it's excusable once it should be fine all the time, right? And think of a situation where raping is excusable.
1) Are you implying that you believe violence to be wrong? If so, why do you believe it to be wrong?
I meant that you believe you have no eternal punishment. And sure people go to jail for breaking laws. But why do these laws exist? Why is there a law against murder? Because it's wrong? Why is it wrong?
So who is right? You might say, "Whoever obeys the customs of that society." What if a society gave no punishment/jail-time for murder? Would you go around murdering everyone?
I thought you said you got your morals from society.............
Why? You believe that you only live once. So why not steal and make yourself happy?
Conversation between Christian and Atheist about life's meaning:
Christian: "What do you believe is life's meaning?"
If you don't believe in an afterlife, that makes everything you do on earth, useless. A hopeless pile of hogwash. The goal of Christians is to "go out and make disciples of all nations" as Jesus commanded.
If society declared no punishment for 'crimes', you wouldn't go out and do those 'crimes' for what reasons? I thought you got your morals from society. So if society goes nuts, why don't you follow it?
'The common good of all' is...
Alrighty then... and why do you value things?
And so we have come back around the circle, so I shall repeat my original question: Why don't you do whatever you please?
Then what does matter? What do you believe is your meaning?
I'm curious. What do you believe your purpose is?
Everyone DOES get these feelings! That's why we don't go around murdering people!
You didn't answer my question. Would you take the candy because it's bad for the child and because you want to eat it? It's a 'yes or no' question.
If you believe in nothing, just as the animals do, then I'm not sure. How are you supposed to tell right from wrong?
I'm not sure your words made perfect sense to me, but... If you are a Christian soldier, you should protect your country/friends/family by murdering, only as a last resort. Because some of those enemies would take you life, or the lives' of you're fellow soldiers, without question. God will also forgive you of murder if you ask him.
I'm not completely up-to-snuff on my Bible studies, but I think that stoning was part of old jewish laws. But like I said, I'm not a certified Bible scholar or anything.
Everyone does not share the same morals, if we did, would we be discussing this? Christians get their morals from the Jesus and his doctrine.
Because Jesus commands Christians to go make disciples. And I don't hate life, and I never said that I did.
Because that lobster is temporary and meaningless. Ernest Hemmingway was an atheist who killed himself because he could find no meaning. He was smart enough to not prolong the inevitable, but no smart enough to see the gospel.
Bingo. Back to my original question. Why don't you go and do whatever you please?
Adolf Hitler was bad because he murdered millions of people, which is against Christian morals.
God desires no one to suffer. Why do you think he sent his only son to save us?
Jesus said to go and make disciples of all nations. I believe it was jewish law that demanded the stoning of others.
*facedesk* Shooting someone does not make them go to heaven.
No, it is your choice to reject, or believe in God.
*double facedesk* Shooting someone does not bring them to God.
No. I would be one who takes full advantage of life, just as you say someone should.
I was assuming that I were an atheist, and that the laws of society have been abolished. Then I would to whatever I please.
Why should we help the light of life shine brighter? We're all just worthless bags of chemicals that can talk, right?
Probably. If I were to blind to see meaning, I would probably kill myself.
Childish name-calling is the first sign that is shown when one is losing a debate. You are lucky I do not take offense to this. But I forgive you for calling me names. Or are you not sorry?
And I responded to those 'ways'
Read over my responses.
Who cares? As long as you are pleased and you get the most out of your life, right?
But they still had a choice. To eat the fruit and disobey God, or to not eat the fruit. They had a moral choice to make.
You believe that you're ultimate goal in life is to care for a few birds that could normally take care of themselves in the wild?
Because you believe that everything is temporary. You can only make a temporary difference that will temporarily benefit a temporary society.
What if your family was white and you decided that it was morally fine to kill black people? Does that make it right just because those are morals that have been developed?
I'm saying that would you take that cookie and deliberately disobey? What about $10? $100? $100,000? Would you take $100,000 dollars just to satisfy yourself?
Go back and read my responses.........
You give your own lives meaning? Sounds to me like you just said "The meaning of life is what life means."
Insults get you nowhere in debates.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 10:28pm
@afterburner0- life is what you make it, not what your silly notion of a god makes it.
that, and because of the fact that you have damaged the livelihood of another member of your kind. simple as that.
if your god gave us a sense of right and wrong, why do so many of us not believe him? afterall, your religion says its wrong to believe anyone other than god, or not believe in him at all. free will my ***, right and wrong would still mean that we would believe that your god existed.
what we are saying is that you shouldn't let an outdated belief make major life descisions for you. we are defining what life means to us. simple as that.
society covers most, if not all, of the bases. so really your god isn't needed.
we care because it is our only life, and we need to make the best of it. your religion tells you that this life is meaningless, we are saying that life has meaning. see where your beliefs fall short?
morals are instinct. we don't steal because our instinct tells us the most likely outcome of the situation. just like animals. no souls required.
no, we never said that. your god sure did durring the crusades, and many other events in the bible. so go ahead, kill in the name of your false notion of beliefs.
we make the meaning, and our meanings tend to be better than "get people to share my beliefs any means necessary"
our genetic purpose is to make sure that our survival as a species continues. our subconcious purpose is to maintain homeostasis, and our individual purpose is to live life to the fullest as we see it. your god wants to cut us off in each of those if you look at both the bible, and history, very carefully.
since there is no god, you are wasting your life.
then you are as emotionally mature as a child. children do whatever they want, but only don't do certain things because they fear punishment. your religion is doing the exact same thing to you, turning you into a child/sheep/thrall. you are becoming a puppet, and your dances have no meaning in the long run.
I don't think you really realize the gravity of what you just said. you basically just forefeited you life for a meaningless and unreachable goal. good luck with the rest of your wasted life.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 10:54pm
You haven't actually given any responses addressing what we have said. You have asked questions to things we already responded to.
An insult would be to tell you what's been going through my mind about you. That was pointing out the obvious in a satirical way.
As for this being a debate, as it still seems you have no interest in hearing us. So I have to wonder about this one way debate. You repeatedly asked where we get our morals, which we told you but you keep asking. You have tried to tell us what our position is on things such as with "atheists have no meaning to life" and have even go as far as to try and put words in our mouth. You continue to ask why we don't just do what ever we like regardless of harm, which we answered. You have not refuted a thing there and seem to be ignoring what we are saying to favor your own stereotype.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 10:55pm
dang, my post is out of date. back to work:
because, like we covered earlier, it only serves as a detriment to our species to kill off a good source of genes.
no, because it would still serve as a detriment to our species, which our instincts tell us to preseve our species.
because if we do, then we would only shorten our life, or make it as meaningless as your religion when we get life in jail.
you again seem to be missing the point. morals don't come from religion. society made it first, but religion took the credit. we wouldn't steal because extending our species is our ultimate goal. our happiness is only a side-objective that is still governed by society's laws.
religious doctrine (if you actually paid attention) says otherwise.
sorry, but that also applies with religion. everything you did has no real meaning in the eyes of god, who only wants more thralls to feed his ego. for he is indeed "a jealous god".
and that is why we all call you a fool. look over it again, and see if you can't figure out why.
but they had no morals, until they ate the fruit, so they wouldn't know that they were doing wrong. argument disproven.
how can you not see this, or understand this. his has more meaning than yours. his will extend his life, while yours will bring you an early death (because you believe that the ultimate goal is to die and go to a false land).
we are, but we are still obligated by instinct to preserve the survival of said talking meat-bags.
still beneficial, instead of your god promoting massive slaughtering to sate his desire to be loved.
society says otherwise, and would lock our parents away. your god said it was okay to mistreat black people, if my memory is correct.
no, I wouldn't. you are thinking that because we have only one life, that we should just run rampant and do whatever we want for as long as possible. it doesn't work like that, but your religion's brainwashing forces you to think that is the case without your lonely god. that is why we consider you foolish.
just like how your ignorance will get you nowhere. this isn't a debate, it's us trying to educate a man who covers his ears as goes "nananananananana" to prevent our points from hitting home.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 11:12pm
Sigh. No. Stop reading into people's posts what you want to see there. No one has said this.
In a society where strength is valued and mates are chosen by this, **** would be a form of courting. Taking the other by force would indicate that you have more strength than they do. Since this would be the commonly accepted way of courting/mating, this wouldn't be wrong.
No. I'm implying nothing in of itself. I'm saying that violence in this case is unnecessary. While we could go forever in a circle of give and take, this would be a colossal waste of time.
Tradition/proven to work well.
Because if we all just went out killing each other, we wouldn't get much down now would we? It would kill off our species.
I said that's one of the 3 ways/places we get them from.
Because it wouldn't make me happy. I'd be thrown in jail. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
How do you figure that.
The common good is the common good...the environment where each person has a fair chance to live a happy life...
For the exact same reason you do. Because they have meaning to us. We just don't value the same things always.
I have already answered this, and so have the others.
1) In born instinct in this case.
I'm sick of answering your same questions over and over. All of us have already told you why we don't just go out and do whatever whim we want, on how we don't think life is meaningless, and our own personal stances on where we get morals from.
Either ask something new, make a new stand, or stop ignoring our posts so you can pretend to be above us by strawmanning our argument to say something which we aren't.
I'll leave with this statement: Atheists are more moral than Theists because we do what is "right" because it is the best choice of action, and not out of fear of punishment. Theists do what is right because they're scared to be punished. This is the lowest level of moral reasoning and the equivalent of a 5 year old.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 11:17pm
Then why did He send Jesus to suffer?
Is this justification for the Crusades?
Without knowledge of the consequences, there wasn't much incentive not to eat it. It's like telling a kid not to touch the stove because they'll get burned, when the kid's never been burned before. They'll touch it wondering what the heck you were talking about. Also, since God's all knowing, he knew what choice they'd make, so he set them up for failure from the start.
You believe that an all-powerful being decided to create you with the sole purpose of being his preaching slave instead of simply writing "I am God, I exist" in the sky?
Gotta love contradictions. By your logic, if God made him with right and wrong born into him, and he truly believed that Jews were enemies of Christ who deserved to die and God was putting him in power for such a noble purpose, then therefore God told him that genocide was the right thing to do.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 11:29pm
I make my own morals. The same way the wolfs know that killing each other would be counter productive.
You asked me if killing was wrong. I said sometimes. Your response is irrelevant.
It is in the Torah, or Old Testament to the Christians. Which, even Jesus said, still counts.
If you believe that the Bible is the book of a deity, and is more important information for him to give then even things like medicine, then why are you not memorizing the whole thing?
Bull. You have not gotten any of your morals from Jesus or his doctrine. If you did, then wouldn't all Christians think the same?
If god gave us morals, then all morals would be the same. Since all morals are different, then that means that a god could not have given us morals.
You seem to think that without religion, you would be a murderous killer. If religion is the only thing keeping you from genocide, then you hate life.
So why not live dangerously while doing it? That way you get disciples and get to heaven faster. And why are you sad when someone dies, if you believe they are going to heaven?
? He was not an atheist. He was Catholic, he even had a Catholic funeral.
Alright, thousands of suicides happen across the world each year. Statistically, most of them are Christians do to there being more Christians. So why don't you off yourself, or if you can't do that drink hard and live dangerously, if you are just going to go to heaven after you die?
Because that would be wasting it. I would much prefer to leave a legacy of science and friends and family then "That rapist". Are you suggesting that if you where an atheist, you would **** and pillage then kill yourself?
HA! Have you read the Bible? God killed more than that, and is planning to do the same himself. The flood! Revelations! David, Sampson, Lot, he ordered killings of millions and killed millions himself.
Now answer my question. Why is killing bad, if it is just sending people to god, or sending them to hell, which would be part of his plan?
Yawheh wants people to suffer. Why else would he make hell in the first place?
So are you saying that all the Jews, who would go to hell under the Christian doctrine, deserved to go to hell?
Then you are the scum of the earth and deserve no paradise.
You are blind, and you are still alive. See what I said about you hating life?
Apologize? You are scum and a coward. You admit to being ruled by fear, the only reason you even live is because you are afraid to die. You are scum, you have no morals outside of an insane book you have not even read, and admitted that you would **** and pillage without it. I gladly call any man ruled by fear a coward, and any man without a sliver of morals scum.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 11:40pm
So no one else has too.
He never said that. The actions of a radical group within the fundamental group shouldn't represent the attitude and the goals of the whole. That's just being narrow-minded.
Obviously, ultimately that is how one learns a lesson, from a mistake, correct?
He wanted to bring more honor and glory to His name and His kingdom, simply writing it in the sky would be pointless.
He said "Basic understanding" not complete/full understanding. Hitler was driven by lust for power that made him blind to the rights or wrongs of Christian morals and more for to gain power. It was all a big political stunt in the beginning to be anti-semetic, because most German people were thats how he gained parliamentary seats in the Reichstag and power for his Nazi party.
Posted Mar 6, '12 at 11:50pm
You just don't know how to read do you.
Because society wouldn't exist if everyone is murdering everyone.
This Christian reminds me of someone in this debate who keeps making illogical assumptions.
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