Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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How many times have I seen the cosmological argument already...
Scientifically, the universe HAS to have a beginning
Scientifically speaking matter cannot be created, only creationists insist that matter must have been created not scientists. The only thing I would say necessarily has to have a beggining is time.
and an end
Who the hell gave you that idea? How do you know that?
So there HAS to be a creator for there to be a creation.Let's say for argument's sake that matter was created at the big bang, even though the theory does not in anyway state or imply that. What makes you think this 'creator' has to be sentient?
Its stupid that you can say, everything MUST be created and then make a special exception with a metaphysical being that somehow interferes with the physical world.
Why? Why can't the matter have always existed? Why can't the universe collapse on itself into an infinitely small space and have the big bang happen again, and again and again..? Last I knew that was a valid idea for the universe.
Because modern science says otherwise. It had to have a beginning and an end. And who else can explain the beginning except God?
If you are actually looking for proof rather than sitting here trolling, then you should look at the links I posted above. If you are actually trolling, thank you for proving Jesus even more.
False. Christianity does not oppose determinism. Your argument is declined.
Assuming this, then you haven't disproven the claim that all rational Christians are also determinist.
Well, there's more arguments.
God cannot "create" morality. Without God's existence, the universe would still have virtues. For instance, why is it immoral to murder? Surely not because of God?! For murder would be wrong whether God existed or not!
All true virtues are not the creation of God, but exist independently of God.
Because modern science says otherwise. It had to have a beginning and an end. And who else can explain the beginning except God?
Oh really, do you have a source for that? Because last time I checked one of the basic laws of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. If it cannot be created then it had no beginning. There are an infinite amount of things that are infinite, ergo not end, for example irrational numbers.
Are you stating it was God (as in omnipotent deity) or the Christian God? and if so why a Christian God?
God cannot "create" morality. Without God's existence, the universe would still have virtues. For instance, why is it immoral to murder? Surely not because of God?! For murder would be wrong whether God existed or not!
All true virtues are not the creation of God, but exist independently of God.
This is false as well. God sent the first original laws when he gave the ten commandments to Moses. All moralities and virtues are based off of a religion in some form or another.
This is false as well. God sent the first original laws when he gave the ten commandments to Moses.
This is what I'm attacking.
Christianity --> this.
But ~this. Therefore, ~Christianity.
what are you attacking? All I see is a bunch of hyphens and arrows. You make absolutely no sense at all.
what are you attacking? All I see is a bunch of hyphens and arrows. You make absolutely no sense at all.
OK - Christianity implies that morals stem from God. By referencing the Bible, you're creating a circular reference.
However, I am stating that virtues and morals would exist independent of God. With evidence. Because this precludes morals stemming from God, reductio ad absurdum, not Christianity.
Oh really, do you have a source for that? Because last time I checked one of the basic laws of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. If it cannot be created then it had no beginning. There are an infinite amount of things that are infinite, ergo not end, for example irrational numbers.
Are you stating it was God (as in omnipotent deity) or the Christian God? and if so why a Christian God?
And who gave us the gift of physics? What creates gravity? Matter had to have been created. And yes, the Judo- Christian God, the God of Abraham, because this is the only true God. If it was any other religion, you'd be a lot more tolerant, but you're not. Jesus said " you will be persecuted and mocked because of me." so thank you for proving Jesus all that much more
I'll give you an example of proof of God. Atheists like to use the Big Bang as an example. Scientifically, the universe HAS to have a beginning and an end, as explained by scientists. So there HAS to be a creator for there to be a creation. In this form, the creation is the universe. So it is a contradiction for there not to be God
The universe started as a singularity at which point time breaks down. In other words the laws of cause and effect no longer apply. So for the Big Bang to start it would not need a creator as it's "rior" (using the term in the loosest of senses) state could exist without this requirement. Also we really don't have an example of anything being created in such a sense as all things we generally refer to as being created is just the reordering of existing matter/energy.
Even if the above was not in your way the cosmological argument doesn't preclude other deities. We could just as easily say creators as we can creator.
Because modern science says otherwise. It had to have a beginning and an end. And who else can explain the beginning except God?
The assertion that there had to be an end to the universe seems to not be backed up at all. Only the beginning of the universe is supported. Not the end.
And the big bang can explain the beginning.
OK - Christianity implies that morals stem from God. By referencing the Bible, you're creating a circular reference.
However, I am stating that virtues and morals would exist independent of God. With evidence. Because this precludes morals stemming from God, reductio ad absurdum, not Christianity.
You don't have any evidence, you're just stating hypothetical examples, which are easily dismissed. The Bible is not a religious text. It is a history book from eyewitness accounts, so the bible is reliable evidence
If you are actually looking for proof rather than sitting here trolling, then you should look at the links I posted above. If you are actually trolling, thank you for proving Jesus even more.
You do yourself a disservice by saying people who are trying to logically and civilly argue with you are trolls.
You posted two links one is some garbage site that is trying to sell me something and another is only brushing the surface of science is getting most of it wrong.
The Bible is true prophetically.
The accuracy of the sites content is equivalent to the style,html code and writing style.
So for the Big Bang to start it would not need a creator as it's "rior" (using the term in the loosest of senses)
Yes Stephen Hawking said that "What comes before the Big Bang?" is like asking "What is North of the North Pole?"
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