Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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Reasoning is necessary. Since civilization developed we have been useing reasoning and evidence to figure out how to work the world to benifit us. And without science you would be left without most of what you have now.
Seriously, stop contradicting yourself. Do we have a choice now or not? :P
Back to serious; like I told you, I cannot study religion before I know whether he exists or not; religion is no proof of his existence. The only proof of gods existence ever possible, is his existence itself. So I have to find out about that first.
Just a little comment on your definition of evolution: it is not the work of anyone, it is a process we didn't invent, simply observe, indirectly as well as directly. As a natural process, it is a process of the world supposedly created by god. Therefore, if you assume god exists, evolution was part of his creation.
I am not contradicting myself. I am disagreeing with the words you put into my mouth, regarding free will. And you are just setting yourself up here so that it is impossible for you to believe in anything but evolution. So either be content with evolution or argue its point, do not claim to be open to my or anyones religion.
In the words of John MacArthur, God created everything as it is now. That makes scientific sense.
http://www.ondoctrine.com/2mac0141.htm
I like how you chose, yet again, to overlook my response to you.
I'm no expert, but what I see here is 209 pages of disjointed and totally irrelevant AND irreverant arguements. Both the Athiests and the Christians are making fools of themselves here. Personally, I've always believed there was a god, Christ to be specific, but I've never been much into arguing about it. Both sides should PROBABLY keep an open mind. Keep it clean & friendly. I too am disjointed, irrelevant, and irreverant, but at least I am "Man" enough to admit it, and see it. I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, just pages 1-16, so I might have missed something.
Pros & Cons;
Athiests
Pros: Need Proof, Need respect, and Need logic.
Cons: Don't take insults, Flame anyone who opposes their regime, and are generally trollers. No offense to any Athiests out there. I know grand few who are good people. Just saying.
Christians
Pros: Generally have respect for people, have a reletively strong sense of ethics, have a fascinating moral code.
Cons:Like to cram stuff down peoples throats, don't allow anyone to get a word in edge-wise, and have a nasty reputation for Cliques.
All in all, you guys are kind of sloppy in how you go about this. It's GOOD to argue your beliefs, Every man (And woman, not including Marilyn Manson, or Sarah Palin) is entitled to their own opinion. But seriously. Have some grace&manners. Battle with honor. Be good sportsmen/women! Don't just start flaming like godzilla if/when you win/lose. CHRIST!!!
(I like "/", so please excuse my obvious overuse)
Thanks for reading this post.
---ZApe.
Try to understand my point: religion revolves around god; it is in no way proof of his existence, it is te other way round: if god exists, that prooves that christianity is true. Christianity does exist, but is it true? You can't use christianity to proove god's existence since it requires god's existence to be true.
In the words of John MacArthur, God created everything as it is now. That makes scientific sense.
That makes no scientific sense, since we can scientifically observe change. That does not even make philosophical sense. A perfect being is not subject to change; what for? It is already perfect. Imperfect things are subject to change. Your claim would mean that we are all perfect, that all animals, all plants are perfect. Is that so?
just pages 1-16, so I might have missed something.
That's old news, aha. The recent debate sparked off about 20 pages back.
have a fascinating moral code.
Yeah...like how they claim that they're so peace loving when the bible says to kill homosexuals and women who were *****, along with beating your Slave is AOK.
Yeah...like how they claim that they're so peace loving when the bible says to kill homosexuals and women who were *****, along with beating your Slave is AOK.
I've pointed out the flaws in the Bible many times.
You have to remember that the time the bible was written was a very different culture and society.
It doesn't argue against Pedophilia, but in society now, we know it's a sin/ crime.
Do you see good in the world anymore?
Yeah I do.
Must everything have an explantation so you can be content with your beliefs?
Yep...
A scientific approach to everything does not call for any love. And you seem to be constant in assuming the roll of an inhuman information bank.
I may try to remove my emotions from determining reality as best I can it doesn't mean I can not have or express those emotions. With the use of the scientific approach I can even explain why and how I have such emotions.
Basing beliefs on evidence using science and skepticism gives a self scrutinizing and self correcting process. Instead of the free for all that faith offers where you believe whatever you want to be true.
Really your argument is about as funny as the time I had someone tell me "learning is stupid" and pretty similar to such a statement as well.
Picking and choosing again, I see. God never approved of masters beating there slaves. Ephesians 6.9 tells masters to take care of slaves.
Picking and choosing again, I see. God never approved of masters beating there slaves. Ephesians 6.9 tells masters to take care of slaves.
Oh really now?
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48)
"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." (Exodus 20:20-21)
And he didn't approve of Children being beat either?
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)
Now i'm Christian, but one can point out the contradictions in the Bible when arguing society and culture differences.
I'm no expert, but what I see here is 209 pages of disjointed and totally irrelevant AND irreverant arguements. Both the Athiests and the Christians are making fools of themselves here. Personally, I've always believed there was a god, Christ to be specific, but I've never been much into arguing about it. Both sides should PROBABLY keep an open mind. Keep it clean & friendly. I too am disjointed, irrelevant, and irreverant, but at least I am "Man" enough to admit it, and see it. I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, just pages 1-16, so I might have missed something.
Pros & Cons;
Athiests
Pros: Need Proof, Need respect, and Need logic.
Cons: Don't take insults, Flame anyone who opposes their regime, and are generally trollers. No offense to any Athiests out there. I know grand few who are good people. Just saying.
Christians
Pros: Generally have respect for people, have a reletively strong sense of ethics, have a fascinating moral code.
Cons:Like to cram stuff down peoples throats, don't allow anyone to get a word in edge-wise, and have a nasty reputation for Cliques.
All in all, you guys are kind of sloppy in how you go about this. It's GOOD to argue your beliefs, Every man (And woman, not including Marilyn Manson, or Sarah Palin) is entitled to their own opinion. But seriously. Have some grace&manners. Battle with honor. Be good sportsmen/women! Don't just start flaming like godzilla if/when you win/lose. CHRIST!!!
(I like "/", so please excuse my obvious overuse)
Thanks for reading this post.
---ZApe.
Ok. I agree. I'm done arguing with all of these people. With atheists, and more specifically a person who chops up the bible to get his points across. It's been a nice chat. And thank you to MageGrayWolf. You have some excellent points that I should really take into account. Goodbye now.
Well, I'm GUESSING that's what happens to people who ATTEMPT to say something non-biast. Oh well. So, basically there is no arguement here? Just people contradicting each-other? Lawdy lawdy, just be good sports. And have no fear, the moderators and administrators have gotten used to duel-sided flaming in the religion. By clean they mean no language, and by friendly, they mean no death threats.
Back to the point.... By fascinating, I meant something more like.... Well though through, and suited to the times. And archaic. Or however you meant that. Not referring toslave-beating..... Although I DO believe in slaves, AND slave beating.... If they have done something wrong, like steal, or some such crime.
chops up the bible to get his points across
No i educate on the Bible. "Spreading the word of God" just like you wanted me to.
Back to the point.... By fascinating, I meant something more like.... Well though through, and suited to the times. And archaic. Or however you meant that. Not referring toslave-beating..... Although I DO believe in slaves, AND slave beating.... If they have done something wrong, like steal, or some such crime
I can't make sense of the first point. But may i ask why you believe in slavery?
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