Forums

ForumsWorld Events, Politics, Religion, Etc.

Theism and Atheism

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:14pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

I think the point was that God was proving he loved us by sacrificing his son.

My rebuttal to that is: God sure is messed up if he thinks displaying love requires a brutal, torturous, unnecessary death. How, in any way, is torturing your own son to death a loving act?

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:22pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

And Kasic Have you ever been to church before and if you did have you read the bible page to page.

I've said 2-3 times in the past two pages that I have been to church many times before. As for the bible, I've read the majority of it (although not recently).

And if you did did you actually listen to the talks people gave?

I always listen when people speak. I also think about what they say. When I went to a Catholic church, the sermons were always the exact same and were about how people are horrible and we need God. The Methodist church was mostly random stories which were used as examples for the ideas in various books in the Bible.

And if you did read the Bible did you pray if those things are true?

I'm not seeing how praying if something is true has anything to do with what is true. To answer your question though, I did, up until around age 6-7, believe in God, if only because my parents told me he was real and I had no reason to doubt them. I would pray in church when the pastor asked me to and before dinner and such...

From ~7 onward I began to question what was told to me because things weren't lining up. Age 11 I had a fight with my parents about me not wanting to go to church anymore because I said I didn't believe God was real and I didn't want to spend my Sunday mornings doing something I thought was pointless. After I got dragged to church for another year I finally put my foot down and refused to go, haven't been since.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:25pm

Blairlarson

Blairlarson

93 posts

Because Jesus died we can live agin.

Jesus was tortured but that was not a very long period of time.

Because Jesus did that we wont be tortured for all entirety.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:28pm

Blairlarson

Blairlarson

93 posts

Kasic if you did not believe in those to churches you went to then go to a different church. One that maybe you will understand and they don't tell you that you are wicked the church I go to does not do that.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:28pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

Because Jesus died we can live agin.

1) Jesus dying is a "requirement" only because God made it so. A truly loving, all powerful God could have saved us without sacrificing his own son.

2) Provide proof that we "live again" please. As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die.

Jesus was tortured but that was not a very long period of time.

I know how long Jesus was on the cross, but do you? Please answer, without using Google. I'd like to see if your repeated advisories for me to read the Bible are followed.

Because Jesus did that we wont be tortured for all entirety.

Again, Jesus being sacrificed was 100% unnecessary.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:35pm

Blairlarson

Blairlarson

93 posts

It was nine hours that is what Mark 15:24-37 says.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:37pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

Kasic if you did not believe in those to churches you went to then go to a different church.

I've got to laugh here.

First of all, both of what I mentioned were Christian churches. They each taught that God and Jesus were real, that Jesus died on the cross and took mankind's sins upon himself, was entombed and rose from the dead on the third day and later ascended to heaven.

I don't go to church because I don't need to be told what to believe, sorry. I can think for myself.

One that maybe you will understand and they don't tell you that you are wicked the church I go to does not do that.

Oh? So your church doesn't tell you mankind are all inherently sinners and that without God's grace we would go to hell? (or at least, not go to heaven)

It was nine hours that is what Mark 15:24-37 says

Yes, it was 6-9 hours depending on which gospel.

You don't think 9 hours on a cross with nails through you and your weight on them after beatings beforehand is "not a very long period of time?"

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:41pm

Blairlarson

Blairlarson

93 posts

You don't think all entirety of torture is bad.
Yes 9 hours of torture is bad but compared to all entirety its not even close

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:49pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,590 posts

You don't think all entirety of torture is bad.
Yes 9 hours of torture is bad but compared to all entirety its not even close

Right, I'm getting tired of this evasion.

Going to just restate all the things you've ignored up to this point, please respond to them.

1) "There are no reliable historical records that definitively prove [Jesus] existed."

2) "Why do you attribute a sense of accomplishment, satisfaction, or just general well being to some unseen cause?"

3) "Why did anyone need to die at all, perfect or not? An all powerful God could have literally achieved what he wanted in an infinite number of non-bloody ways."

4) "How, in any way, is torturing your own son to death a loving act?"

5) "Provide proof that we 'live again' please. As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die."

Since you don't seem to be hearing me, let me say it again. Jesus's suffering on the cross was completely unnecessary.

 

Posted Dec 8, '12 at 12:58pm

Blairlarson

Blairlarson

93 posts

"As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die."

You can't see the person live agin because it is their spirt not their body

I will agree about one thing there could of been other ways to make or sins forgiven.

You seem not to be listing to me.

God loved the so much that he gave his only son.

One person had to die for all of are sins to be forgiven and it was not when he was on the cross when are sins where forgiven it was in the garden of gethsemane.

 
Reply to Theism and Atheism

You must be logged in to post a reply!