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Theism and Atheism

Posted Jan 7, '13 at 8:26am

TheMostManlyMan

TheMostManlyMan

3,557 posts

Oh ok, we'll reading down lower it looks to me more like the Sabah he's referring to there is figurative for heaven.

Correction, yes Hebrews was written 30 I think. But the New Testament didn't come onto effect until 50 days after his death (or redirection, I forget) on the Pentecost.

If I'm not mistaken, the reason they're described as different things is because the Ten Commandments were just the basic laws really.

 

Posted Jan 7, '13 at 4:19pm

Bobthebest

Bobthebest

28 posts

I've been an atheist for years and years. Jesus supposedly saved the known world and removed us of our sin. IF this actually did happen, why didn't he come down and save the Jews in Holocaust? Stop a World War ans save Millions of lives? Help smooth the situation in the Middle East? Or at least help us transfer into Green energy? He hasn't. There comes a point where you have to believe he never will. An argument to that was that God gave us free will. Well, if were given free will then he shouldn't have tried to save us anyway. I agree with Christianity on one thing, it won't happen again. We won't have somebody rise up and help us again. Although I don't believe Jesus was the some of God, if God even exists. Christianity follows the Bible. But the bible was written HUNDREDS of years after the fact. That shows that there are two possibilities. Either the story was told orally, and stories are often embellished when told orally; or the whole thing was made up, very unlikely but still possible. I think Judaism is one the right track and saying that Jesus was not the son of "God" but I disagree with the fact that they are waiting for the "Savior." And no offense to all of the other religions, but after a point, it becomes hard to understand and believe everything for the age of 16. Also, being an atheist is nice because if you are confused at any of the religions you can take a step back and think; often with an unbiased opinion.

 

Posted Jan 7, '13 at 8:01pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,591 posts

Jesus supposedly saved the known world and removed us of our sin

The most common teaching is that he took our sins upon himself, not that he got rid of sin.

why didn't he come down and save the Jews in Holocaust?

There's nothing in scripture that says he's going to come back to stop slaughters.

There comes a point where you have to believe he never will.

Bible says no man knows when he'll come back, which basically leaves the entire subject open ended from a theological standpoint.

An argument to that was that God gave us free will.

There's never actually anywhere in the Bible that is says this that I'm aware of.

But the bible was written HUNDREDS of years after the fact

The Old testament was written before the supposed birth of Jesus Christ.
The New testament was written, at minimum, 30 years after his supposed death. It wasn't until later that the Bible as we "officially" see it was compiled.

Either the story was told orally, and stories are often embellished when told orally; or the whole thing was made up, very unlikely but still possible.

The most likely explanation. Along with fervent teaching, such embellishment isn't unexpected in the slightest.

after a point, it becomes hard to understand and believe everything for the age of 16.

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that there's too much information for a 16 year old to look at and decide upon, or that a 16 year old isn't so gullible to believe so many conflicting stories?

Also, being an atheist is nice because if you are confused at any of the religions you can take a step back and think; often with an unbiased opinion

There's not much to be confused about with religion, if you look at it from the standpoint of it's something humans made up. Inconsistencies, conflicts within, different interpretations and meanings, etc, all fall nicely into the area of "human."

 

Posted Jan 7, '13 at 8:24pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

why didn't he come down and save the Jews in Holocaust? Stop a World War ans save Millions of lives? Help smooth the situation in the Middle East?

This is supposed to be the trial of a free world ruled by the governments of man to show that we can't successfully do it alone and that we need God for guidance. He'll resurrect the innocent, faithful, and those who truly repent the error of their ways later. Granted, He's not preventative.

Or at least help us transfer into Green energy?

The usual answer is "Mankind was told to 'Fill the earth and subdue it' [Genesis 1:28]. God will fix it later, so don't worry about it at all."

There comes a point where you have to believe he never will.

The usual answer is "Revelations metaphorically reflects modern events, so His reign will return soon. Be patient and faithful. This is the most important time to remain spiritually strong, as He will return 'like a thief' [2 Peter 3:10]. Do not doubt Him, for His vengeance is great."

But the bible was written HUNDREDS of years after the fact.

It was compiled hundreds of years later, but most of the NT was written 30-50 years after Jesus. The OT was written long after the events, but was probably verbatim from older writings.

There's not much to be confused about with religion

There is when you're a part of it. If you're confused about how or why something happened, Goddidit.

Inconsistencies, conflicts within, different interpretations and meanings

All ignored by the devout.

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 9:01am

Bobthebest

Bobthebest

28 posts

My point on the bible being written hundreds of years later is because it was compiled years later, and there is no possible way that all of those documents survived.

There's not much to be confused about with religion

WHAT DO YOU MEAN? How does that make any sense? There is plenty to be confused about.
Case in point: How is Christianity monotheism when they worship three different things, a.k.a. Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit. And don't that it is all contained within the "Holy Trinity." No other religion fits all of it's God's into one thing, why does Christianity.

Are you saying that there's too much information for a 16 year old to look at and decide upon, or that a 16 year old isn't so gullible to believe so many conflicting stories?

Both.

God will fix it later, so don't worry about it at all.

And when will that be? When the entire world is basically a giant orb of CO2? And IF he does come down, who says he can do anything? We throw any body who even claims that they are Jesus in the loony bin, how do we know we haven't done that already?

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 9:56am

TheMostManlyMan

TheMostManlyMan

3,557 posts

Bob, it's been 2,000 years, the news waited 3,000 for the messiah. The bible clearly states:
"To God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years"
And
"No one will no the time at which The Lord comes"
"The lord will come as a theif in the night"
"And the fool will say where is The Lord after all this time?"
Now I'm on my IPod which is really annoying to copy and paste on so I'm just paraphrasing mind you.

You don't understand the Godhead (how they actually put it in the bible)? Think of it this way, in an egg there is the egg shell, egg white and yoke but it's still just one egg.

So because other religions don't have it automatically means that it's wrong? So I suppose since (some) other countries don't have freedom of speech than neither should the US.

Yes it is more or less god will fix it don't worry all that much about the state of the earth because (think about this from our perspective) god wouldn't create a world that wouldn't last until he came back as promised.

Hundreds of years after? Dead.sea.scrolls.

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 12:13pm

Bobthebest

Bobthebest

28 posts

Ok, you guys are right on the fact that the bible was not written hundred's of years later. I will concede that point.
However, it was compiled many years later and it was not written in English, or any modern language for that matter. And take one look at any translator, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect. We don't entirely know that the bible is 100%, Because it was mainly written about 1,900 years ago. Many things may be intact but how do we know that it is 100% accurate? We don't.

And I didn't mean that just because other religions don't have anything like the Holy Trinity that it's wrong. I just meant that it is an anomaly and has to be taken under serious consideration.

And saying that God will fix everything, if he does eventually show up, how will he do it? Many people are very skeptical and many people are going to be resistant. That is undeniable.

To God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years

When was this said? I don't remember this being said.
And if that is true, the Earth was formed in 6000-7000 years (depends on if you count the 7th day/day of rest). And the science refutes that. If the earth was formed in 6000-7000 years, when did he have time to make the sun? The stars? EVERYTHING ELSE? It means that there is a void when it starts out, but it never mentions the sun. It does mention light, but doesn't mention the sun.
But even more importantly, Genesis was written around 1445 B.C. Dinosaurs came WAY before us, so how would one man know how Earth was created. And the excuse of "God possessed him and told him" isn't really enough. It almost feels like a cop out because they can't explain it.

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 12:33pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

How is Christianity monotheism when they worship three different things, a.k.a. Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.

Even the Trinity aside, I'd still argue that it's polytheism by definition, as worship isn't a requirement:

polytheism
the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods.

god (lowercase)
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

Satan
the chief evil spirit; the great adversary of humanity; the devil.

Devil
a.
( sometimes initial capital letter  ) the supreme spirit of evil; Satan.

b.
a subordinate evil spirit at enmity with God, and having power to afflict humans both with bodily disease and with spiritual corruption.

How does Satan not qualify as a god?

And when will that be?

We are said to be nearing the end of this era of man's governments, based on the signs in Revelation. So soon. There was a specific way to know approximately when, based on something like how 'every day to God is as a thousand years and a thousand years a day' [2 Peter 3:8] and basing it as a 'week' from the great flood. But estimates range between 2000 and 4000 BC, as it's 1656 years after creation based on biblical accounts, but no creation date was given.

And IF he does come down, who says he can do anything?

Doubting His infinite power?

We throw any body who even claims that they are Jesus in the loony bin, how do we know we haven't done that already?

He'll come back in the spiritual form, not physically, and will be leading God's army against the wicked.

However, it was compiled many years later and it was not written in English, or any modern language for that matter. And take one look at any translator, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect. We don't entirely know that the bible is 100%, Because it was mainly written about 1,900 years ago. Many things may be intact but how do we know that it is 100% accurate? We don't.

"God inspired the true translated version and compilation and wouldn't allow other crap to get in there or have anything important be left out."

and there is no possible way that all of those documents survived.

I'll agree with Manly on this point. Some documents survived thousands of years.

And the science refutes that.

"Then science must be wrong, as they should agree."
Not to mention that the earth and water were there before light.

If the earth was formed in 6000-7000 years, when did he have time to make the sun? The stars? EVERYTHING ELSE?

According to Jesus, "All things are possible with God" [Mark 10:27].

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 12:36pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

If the earth was formed in 6000-7000 years, when did he have time to make the sun? The stars? EVERYTHING ELSE?

The earth itself was created before the first 'day' [Genesis 1:1]. Everything else followed.

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 12:50pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,082 posts

Knight

How does Satan not qualify as a god?

He does, but I think most christians would argue that Satan isn't divine in essence, whatever he may be.
Also, wasn't he an angel before being corrupted? He would have gone from underling to deity thanks to his fall, I thought he ought to be punished.

Not to mention that the earth and water were there before light.

Even the plants were there before the light. Genius God?

 
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