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Theism and Atheism

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 2:09pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Source?

Wiki:
"Torah...traditionally thought to have been written around 1440 BCE by Moses himself."
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 2:14pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

, the Fod who created the earth and all it's glory can make sure that there is at least one good and complete copy of his word.


The same supposedly all powerful and loving God who:

Created Satan.
Let him tempt Adam and Even.
Made the tree in the first place...
Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood.
so on so forth.
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 3:45pm

Bobthebest

Bobthebest

28 posts

The same supposedly all powerful and loving God who:

Created Satan.
Let him tempt Adam and Even.
Made the tree in the first place...
Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood.
so on so forth.


Why does nobody else even consider this? God is supposedly "perfect" but he has done bad things. And our version of perfect does not allow for a person to do bad things. He isn't perfect.
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 3:55pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

He isn't perfect.


Continuing...

Even for Revelations when Jesus is supposed to return, it doesn't happen until another mass slaughter of human kind, approved by God.

God, the greatest mass murderer in history. Billions worship him, and yet he's directly responsible for more atrocities than even the worst hundred people ever combined.
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 5:20pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

2,534 posts

I really don't feel like responding to all of that right now


this is the number 1 reason why this thread is still up and running. everytime I see this thread revived, I see the same points re-hashed, and none of the theists seem to notice this. perhaps there is a pschological inhibitor about them that prevents them from reading all of the arguments! something that indoctrinates them, and stops them from actually looking at the total lack of logic in their argument. so I will say this in a way that will at least make christian logic look really stupid:

god turns into the son of himself in order to sacrafice himself to save us from himself.

if that doesn't seem ridiculous, then you really need to think about how this works, and put up a decent response as to how it does.

let it be known, that I really want the people on this site to stop whipping the dead horse that is this thread. it's dead, get over it.

-Blade
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 8:48pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Created Satan.

"For a long while, Satan was good, nearly as high as God (possibly 3rd after Jesus/Michael, depending on the sect), serving Him without question, but wanted power greater than God, and defied Him with his use of temptations/persuasion. He does not force people to do bad; he only tempts them. He was created for the same reason man was: to worship God and to do His will. God alone knew he would do bad things, but Satan did not know that, and, therefore, chose to be defiant and rebellious."

Let him tempt Adam and Eve.
Made the tree in the first place...

"He allowed Adam and Eve to choose to either serve Him or defy Him. They were directly told what to do and what not to do, and they chose to defy Him. It's impossible to have free will if there is no alternative choice. It's impossible to show true love/reverence without such a choice. Thus, now we all make the choice of showing our love for God, or defying Him."
"John 9:1-7 shows that God allows negatives so positives shine through."

god turns into the son of himself in order to sacrafice himself to save us from himself.

"The purpose was to demonstrate His promise of a resurrection for the righteous/innocent."

Killed everyone except for a few people through a giant flood.

"Symbolic of the narrow path to being saved forshadowing armageddon. Those who died were considered evil."

it doesn't happen until another mass slaughter of human kind, approved by God.

"Those people will be bad/sinful in God's eyes. They will choose to be unrighteous. The innocent/righteous will be protected, as a 'great multitude' of people will be saved [Rev 7:9-17]."
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 9:20pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

Where are you quoting from EmperorPalpatine?

Anyways, let's breakdown just how horrible God is.

"For a long while, Satan was good, nearly as high as God (possibly 3rd after Jesus/Michael, depending on the sect), serving Him without question, but wanted power greater than God, and defied Him with his use of temptations/persuasion. He does not force people to do bad; he only tempts them. He was created for the same reason man was: to worship God and to do His will. God alone knew he would do bad things, but Satan did not know that, and, therefore, chose to be defiant and rebellious."


1) Created everything just so he would be worshiped.
2) Knew that he created Lucifer as is and that because he created him that way would do evil.
3) Punished Lucifer for doing what he was created to do.
4) Choice is a bunch of bull**** when God knows that's what you're going to "choose" and because God is omniscient, your actions are predetermined.

"He allowed Adam and Eve to choose to either serve Him or defy Him. They were directly told what to do and what not to do, and they chose to defy Him. It's impossible to have free will if there is no alternative choice. It's impossible to show true love/reverence without such a choice. Thus, now we all make the choice of showing our love for God, or defying Him."
"John 9:1-7 shows that God allows negatives so positives shine through."


1) Same thing with Lucifer. Created them for the sole purpose of worshiping his narcissistic rear.
2) Also same thing with Lucifer. Created them to be tempted so that he could punish them.

"The purpose was to demonstrate His promise of a resurrection for the righteous/innocent."


1) Created yet another thing to die.
2) If he's omnipowerful, he could have accomplished the exact same thing without bloodshed of any kind if he so wished. Since he chose that way, he's simply sadistic.

"Symbolic of the narrow path to being saved forshadowing armageddon. Those who died were considered evil."


1) Created all those evil people to be evil, since he knew what they would do if he created them as such.
2) Mass murder still.
3) Narrow path to being saved = worshiping your *** off.

"Those people will be bad/sinful in God's eyes. They will choose to be unrighteous. The innocent/righteous will be protected, as a 'great multitude' of people will be saved [Rev 7:9-17]."


1) Recurring theme. Created to do bad and punished for doing such.
2) Innocent were only created to worship him.
3) "great multitude" is less than 3/4 of the human race.

In summary, God is a self serving, narcissistic liar who creates things to do bad and punishes them, then gets off on proclaiming himself to be righteous after murdering millions of people and having set plans to murder further billions.

Why would anyone want to follow such a god as portrayed in the Bible?
 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 10:25pm

Bobthebest

Bobthebest

28 posts

People want to follow the god in the bible because they need to know that some one or something will/can save them. It's called faith. And it's stupid.

 

Posted Jan 8, '13 at 10:31pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Where are you quoting from EmperorPalpatine?

That's what I'd likely say if I were still in it and arguments I've heard, not necessarily my personal views.

Why would anyone want to follow such a god as portrayed in the Bible?

"Because the rewards are great."

I'll do some research and get back to you on the rest of that.
 

Posted Jan 9, '13 at 12:25am

TheMostManlyMan

TheMostManlyMan

5,577 posts

Well you guys are seeming all high and mighty, so answere this. How was life supposed have have come from inamate objects (the origins of said objects you can only explain as "poof, objects") that have no will, intelligence or power to do anything other than the basic nature of rocks, gasses etc. furthermore how we're they supposed to have gotten any energy in the first place? Or did they get that when they randomly appeared out of nowhere? And remember, after you say to yourself or to me "I don't know" or "not a clue" when we say something like that then you go ahead and say that all of Christianity is idiocy because the bible doesn't expressly say just how every single animal in the ram was fed.

 
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