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Theism and Atheism

Posted Jan 24, '13 at 7:30pm

theregulator

theregulator

544 posts

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

Satan. Christians believe that Satan is a perfectly evil being, and God is perfectly good, and that they are constantly battling one another. in something similar to "unstoppable force meets immovable object."

 

Posted Jan 24, '13 at 7:51pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,158 posts

Satan. Christians believe that Satan is a perfectly evil being, and God is perfectly good, and that they are constantly battling one another. in something similar to "unstoppable force meets immovable object."

Except there's quite a few fails in logic with this.

God created Satan.
God is supposedly stronger than Satan.
Satan was supposed to follow God, which means God screwed up.
God isn't supposed to make mistakes.
God is all powerful and could defeat Satan whenever he wanted, thus he's allowing Satan to corrupt people, meaning he wants those people to be corrupt.
God wanted Satan to be evil and that's why he made him how he did.

I could go on like this for a while.

 

Posted Jan 24, '13 at 10:10pm

kklitzke

kklitzke

39 posts

i have to agree with kasic it makes no sense it is just one big circle god creates saten saten betrays him saten banished 2 hell saten corrupts people they go to hell then when the seven seals are broken the war begins in which god prevails but if god is allready going to win why does there need to be a war which means there is no point to saten and if god has no enemy than there isnt a point to the bible because everyone will be good so there is no point to creation if god could just make it perfect whenever he wanted so he wants us to suffer or b challenged as you may say it

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 12:38am

ImTheMostManlyMan

ImTheMostManlyMan

2,294 posts

I'm not here to stay, I'm just here to clear up all of that confusion about the flood and the ark (confusion that could have easily been resolved with a google search).

Was the ark big enough?

How we're the animals supposed to have been fed?

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 12:46am

Kasic

Kasic

5,158 posts

Was the ark big enough?
How we're the animals supposed to have been fed?

No one is disputing that such a boat would be big, nor that it would have likely been the largest boat of the time.

There simply is not enough space in the ark for two of every animal, Noah's family, food and disposal of waste for them all which would last 40 days. They would have died of disease, starvation, killed each other, or been so smashed in there they would break the boat (not including water, since if it's raining constantly for 40 days you wouldn't need to store any...).

And that's just -one- aspect of what's wrong with Noah's Ark. That story is probably the most ridiculous story in the Bible. It makes so many exact claims and there's direct contradictory evidence to each and every one at every turn.

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 4:39am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,120 posts

The word species and the Biblical word "kind" are often used interchangeably. This is incorrect since they are not synonymous. The Biblical word kind denotes an organism that reproduces others like itself. The species concept is much narrower than this; therefore many species can be included in a single Biblical "kind." The word kind is probably closer to the modern taxonomic unit of genus, and in some cases the larger taxonomic unit, family.

First off this is incredibly vague and seems to indicate the writer having no friggin idea what these classifications mean. But let's just say for the sake of argument that "kind" is equivalent to genus, that still means packing roughly 37,000 different "kinds" on the ark. Of course since these "kinds" would then have to speciate to get what we have today would mean some sort of super evolution taking place. Something that would be further made unlikely by the extremely low genetic diversity that only two of each "kind" (in most cases) would provide.

The following animals could have survived outside the ark (Whitcomb 1998, p.68):

25,000 species of fish

1,700 tunicates (mane chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas

600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins

107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters

10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids

4,000 species of sponges

31,000 protozoan, the microscopic single-celled creatures.

Now we seem to be back to using species as "kind", consistency much?!

At any rate, no, almost all of these would surely die in a global flood due to changes to the water's salinity and pH levels. The only exception might possibly be some of the single celled organisms listed.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Noah and his family would have had to contract every human virus and would have needed to be infested with every human parasite in order for them to exist now.

Let's be conservative and use the figure of 40,000 animals. This allows for extra animals to represent those that have gone extinct and those animals that have not been properly cataloged. This figure of 40,000 animals is 5,000 more than largest previously mentioned numbers. Based on our present understanding of the number of animals this figure should satisfy even the most skeptical.

Closer to 74,000+ This estimate only accounts for the "kinds". we also have to factor in the food. Now a zoo site that lists having 6,000 animals on their blog gives these numbers for a single days feeding.

"The Commissary building boasts a state of the art kitchen that includes commercial-grade appliances and equipment, 540 square feet of freezer space, three walk-in coolers, 2,000 square feet of dry storage, and a 4,000-square-foot hay barn. Despite all the activity, at the end of every day the kitchen is left clean and sparkling."

Using the sites estimate of 40,000 (just to be fair) and given amounts from a zoo to feed 6,000 animals (above) we times this all by 40 days. We come up with a square footage requirement of 1,744,000 just for the food alone. now we can probably figure most of this storage is crated so the 1,744,000 number probably pretty evenly converts over to cubic feet rather nicely. To figure out the cubic footage of this food we would multiply the square footage with it's height. Even if this food was say only 1 foot height we are already over  the arks capacity of 1,518,000 cubic feet with the food alone. Add in the animals and we get an ark that would have to be almost twice as big.

It is obvious that when all the facts of the Genesis account of the flood are examined that there is no reason to doubt that the ark could easily have carried its intended cargo.

Yes, yes there is...

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 4:42am

ImTheMostManlyMan

ImTheMostManlyMan

2,294 posts

My response is in the part of the article that you didn't read (sounding like it's the whole article).

Keep saying that it's stupid as they keep finding evidence for the flood. Just watching TV you find so many things that they say are just so weird and unexpected where a Christian says "you're just now figuring that out? We've known that for ages" or that could be answered with a worldwide flood like when scientists unexpectedly find evidences for floods everywhere they go.

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 4:45am

ImTheMostManlyMan

ImTheMostManlyMan

2,294 posts

Super-evolution? You mean selective breeding?

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 4:49am

Moe

Moe

1,774 posts

Keep saying that it's stupid as they keep finding evidence for the flood.

It would be nice to know what evidence you are referring too,  last I knew it all pointed to there not having been a global flood.

Just watching TV you find so many things that they say are just so weird and unexpected where a Christian says "you're just now figuring that out? We've known that for ages"

Again, and example would be nice.  I don't watch as much tv as I used too, but I never encountered this.

hat could be answered with a worldwide flood like when scientists unexpectedly find evidences for floods everywhere they go.

Individual floods, not one massive flood.  And so far as I know its not unexpected, since its always near a flood plain or body of water.

 

Posted Jan 25, '13 at 4:51am

Moe

Moe

1,774 posts

Well then, thats not right.  The last two parts of my last post should look like this:

Just watching TV you find so many things that they say are just so weird and unexpected where a Christian says "you're just now figuring that out? We've known that for ages"

Again, an example would be nice.  I don't watch as much tv as I used too, but I never encountered this.

that could be answered with a worldwide flood like when scientists unexpectedly find evidences for floods everywhere they go.

Individual floods, not one massive flood.  And so far as I know its not unexpected, since its always near a flood plain or body of water.

 
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