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Theism and Atheism

Posted Jun 6, '13 at 6:05pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

ill just leave this topic


Then why should I even bother to respond? I will, though.

God gives punishments


First philosophical point of interest.

Why is it that God gets to punish us? What gives him that right? Now, I know what you're going to say. "He's better than we are." "He's perfect." "He created us." "He's holy." Etc.

Except, none of those give him ANY right to eternally torture people. None. At all. In any way. Nada. Even if you believe he is "better" than we are, that does not make it okay for him to commit heinous acts and say they're good because he's perfect. This is textbook narcissism. Look it up.

humans would be led astray,be bad and disobey God as first Adam and Eve disobeyed God because of the devil they were thrown out of heaven


Because he created us able to be led astray, by things he created to lead us astray. This is like arguing a ball is at fault because it rolls down a hill, after you make gravity and place it on the downward slope. It's gonna happen.

If God is truly omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent, he would NEVER have created the Tree in the Garden of Eden and let Satan into the garden. Why would he? This is the equivalent of leaving a 2 year old alone with a loaded gun and a psychotic older brother. The two year old has no conceptual understanding of right and wrong and can easily be persuaded by older brother to pick up the gun and pull the trigger while pointing it at oneself, even if mommy/daddy said not to.

Adam and Eve -literally- had no knowledge of good and evil, because they had not yet eaten the fruit. From the very start, the whole idea of a benevolent God is completely torn up irreparably.

Allah to pardon them which he did but he told them to do good deeds all their life and they will go to heaven when they died but if they followed the devil then they would burn in hell and if Allah


Narcissism. Look it up.

thats why he sent the Quran with rules and guidelines to lead a pure and simple life


Yes, pure and simple. Stone the gays, kill the infidels, hide your women and keep them as breeding stock, punish them if they're raped, etc.

I know most Muslims don't think that way, but Sharia law is quite frankly disgusting even so. It is in no way moral or just or fair or right. The Qu'ran, Bible, Torah, and every other religious scripture that gives a code to follow is barbaric. It's stuck thousands of years ago, because religion cannot advance, because it's proclaimed to be the absolute truth. And what would you know, dissenters are killed. There's your "good" morals.
 

Posted Jun 6, '13 at 6:07pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

2,534 posts

and there are other bad things which Allah forbid which are the problems of everyday for example,no gambling and strive to earn your livelihood and Allah has forbidden all unlawful means of livelihood so beat that ! kasic!


allow me instead.

your god placed the source of the knowledge of good and evil down in the center of the garden, and even let a talking salesman of a snake sit in it. your god then punishes us because we are the consequence of his asinine actions. he then sets practically impossible, conflicting standards for us to live by, and then claims we are free to do as we wish, but then punishes us for excercising freedom. he claims that we have free will, but how can we have free will if he is omniscient? he will know exactly what will happen before it does, so that throws free will out the window.

he is basically saying "you humans will be my playthings, or I will let you roast in my furnace". your god is nothing more than a neurotic, petty, and domineering crybaby who thinks the only way something good can be accomplished is through removing the human element from humanity, thereby turning us into domesticated, blind, and stupid lambs.

that's definitely a "wonderful" god you got there.

-Blade
 

Posted Jun 6, '13 at 7:42pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,814 posts

Knight

Pretty much how I see things.
This sort of proves God. NO WAY this happens naturally.


Wait what? What can in no way happen naturally?

Yes, pure and simple. Stone the gays, kill the infidels, hide your women and keep them as breeding stock, punish them if they're raped, etc.

I know most Muslims don't think that way, but Sharia law is quite frankly disgusting even so. It is in no way moral or just or fair or right.


Yes, even if the followers don't think it's right the text of their religion still contains such things.

These books claiming to provide guidelines for life cover the entire spectrum, as such they do not guide at all. Humans simply choose what they want to follow and what they don't want, and use the text as an excuse. Along with the emotional manipulation that religion employs it's further use is to draw others in to do things they might not otherwise do.
 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 3:56am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,732 posts

Knight

This sort of proves God. NO WAY this happens naturally.

The only thing it shows is your poor imagination. You see something you don't understand, resign and call it a "god did it".

There are people that don't resign, people that go out (or stay in the office) and try to find out how it happened, how it works. Whether they believe in god or not is non-relevant; if they believe in god, they think they analyse god's creation. If they don't believe in god they think they analyse the world. The result is the same. You have no right to come in and call them wrong, as you were the first to give up.
 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 10:56am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

i searched on a few websites and lots of people agree that there is a god even famous people like Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein agreed that there has to be a god and ill past a couple of articles which you should read and see for yourself that God exists..

 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 10:57am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

There are millions of people controlling the traffic on road, sea, and air. Beacons are built. People also build traffic light and radar. Air Traffic Control is built to prevent accident. All vehicles have drivers. Even on airplane there are pilot and co-pilot to make the flight safer. On the ships there are Captain, navigator, and engineers. Yet thousands of accidents happen every year on land, sea, and air. Even though there are many controllers, the accidents still happen.

On the contrary, the Earth, Sun, Moon, Stars, and others always revolve for billions of years without single crash. Most scientists believe that the Earth, Sun, and all of the other planets and moons in the solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. For billions of years until now the Earth never bump into the Sun, and the Sun never collides with the Moon. There is no mark, police, nor pilots to drive them. Without God, the Controller of the Universe, none of these would happen. Everything is in order because there is God who controls everything. Allah has put orbit for each of those things. If we really think about it then we will know that God exist.

âHe it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledgeâ [Quran 10:5]

âIt is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbitâ [Quran:40]

 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 10:58am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

To those arrogant people who deny the existence of God, Allah questions them about His creatures. Who is the creator of sperm and plant? People or God the All Wise Creator?

âHave ye seen that which ye emit?

Do ye create it or are We the creator?â [Quran 56:58-59]

âHave ye seen that which ye cultivate?

Is it ye who foster it, or are We the Fosterer?â [Quran 56:63-64]

âWas it ye who made the tree thereof to grow, or were We the grower?â [Quran 56:72]

 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 10:59am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

In another verse, Allah challenges others to create a fly if they could do it. Men may be could make robots from things that created by Allah. Yet, none could make a fly from nothing nor thing that could reproduce except Allah:

ââ¦Lo! Those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!â [Quran 22:73]

 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 11:02am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

This is a story proving Allah's existence

The Story of a Scholar and an Atheist

There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: âDoes God exist?â and âIf God exists then where is God?â

Then they decided when and where the debate takes place.

The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.

âI am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branchless. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,â said the scholar.

The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, âThis scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?â

The villagers were laughing out loud.

After the people calmed down, the scholar said, âIf you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?

Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.

âThen answer my second question,â said the Atheist. âIf God exists, why canât He be seen? Where is God?â The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist.

The scholar slapped the Atheistâs cheek hardly so the Atheist felt so much pain.

âWhy did you slap me? Itâs very painfulâ

The scholar asked, âThere is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?â

âThe pain is here,â the Atheist pointed his cheek.

âNo, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?â asked the scholar to the villagers.

The villagers said, âNo!â

âSo, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.â Said the scholar.

The argument of the scholar is very simple. Yet, the argument that God does not exist just because humanâs sense could not sense the existence of God is very wrong.

 

Posted Jun 7, '13 at 11:06am

mbbs112

mbbs112

196 posts

And you guys say that why Allah is so unkind or unfair?

Allah tells us that He is Pure, Loving, and absolutely Just in every respect. He says that He is the Best of Judges. He also tells us that the life that we are in is a test. He has created all the things that exist and He has created all that happens as well. There is nothing in this existence except what He has created. He also says in the Quran that He created evil (although He is not evil). He is using this as one of the many tests for us.

Oppression is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do to anyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. He does have absolute power over everything. He allows sickness, disease, death and even oppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.

"Can you prove there is a God?"

Can you prove that you exist? Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine that you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things that He has created and the way that He cares for things and sustains us, to know that there is no doubt of His existence.

Think about this the next time that you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect that it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.

And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.

Can a fast food restaurant operate itself without any people there? That's crazy for anyone to even think about.

After considering all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think that all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident?"

 
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