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Theism and Atheism

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 4:41am

KnightDeclan

KnightDeclan

487 posts

Ok, let's throw out the rape one. What about the plethora of other rules not followed?

Yes, let's discuss this. Fornication, which is a serious sin, is not being rewarded. Having to marry the woman (Who never had much to say in the choice back then) would be a punishment for commiting the sin. God's like, "Alright, you wanna treat her like your wife, then she's your wife, and you have to pay the father in addition to your punishment."
 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 7:12am

MacII

MacII

1,369 posts

Not related to the above posts, but to this thread perhaps that by its revival now just happened to drift into my view, this just happened to pop up in the Dutch news, something to do with some interview by Oprah Winfrey of one Diana Nyad, apparently here: http://www.oprah.com/own-super-soul-sunday/Oprah-and-Diana-Nyad (the Dutch article notably points to part two of it).

Counter-arguments raised would then be (among many others, no doubt) here, here and here.

To be honest, I'm indifferent enough (albeit not uninterested, perhaps because of it) to religion that I can't really be bothered one way or the other, but, FYI, and the argument may well fit those want to wear it.

 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 11:33am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,108 posts

I just don't like her or the fanboying going on so I blocked her, what's the big deal.


I'd hardly see rape as "treating her like your wife", but that doesn't answer the question of the picking and choosing of certain laws over others, as Emp was trying to get to in the other thread.

-----

@MacII I remember seeing the interview a while back, and to defend Oprah, the way Nyad described herself made her come off as more of a pantheist than an atheist, followed by then poor wording on Oprah's part.
 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 3:25pm

thebluerabbit

thebluerabbit

5,403 posts

I'd hardly see rape as "treating her like your wife"


"treating her like your wife" is a nicer way of saying "taking care of her like your possesion" because during those times, women WERE nothing but posession.

its a very sophisticated way out of this. then again, pro-gays could say "sleeping with a man as if a woman" means its ok to be with another guy as long as you dont disrespect him and treat him like your own possesion (woman) but yeah... dont we already know the wonders of cherry picking and lack of logic?
 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 3:52pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,814 posts

Moderator

I'd hardly see rape as "treating her like your wife", but that doesn't answer the question of the picking and choosing of certain laws over others, as Emp was trying to get to in the other thread.

He wasn't talking about rape, but about fornication in this case. (oh, and I think you copied the wrong quote there...). But you're right in that I don't see how his excursus about fornication answers your question.
 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 5:27pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

God's policy on women. You break it, you buy it. Sounds like a swell guy, right?

Yes, let's discuss this. Fornication, which is a serious sin, is not being rewarded.


Yes, let's. Why is the woman punished because the man forced her into doing something? As you admitted, women didn't have much of a choice back then. Why would God, this supposedly all loving, all knowing, all powerful being, pass down a law like this? Even if you want to punish people for sex outside of marriage, I can think of better ways off the top of my head.

1) Forbid those two from seeing each other.
2) Have them each ask God for forgiveness.
3) I don't know, talk to both of them so they understand what they did was "wrong?"

Why would God impose a money fine. Seriously. This "law" is just, "you slept with my daughter? Great, a sucker to take her off my hands! Pay me x amount of money and you won't get in trouble, and you'll have a new wife!"

It's only a punishment for the woman, something all too common in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The man has free license to coerce a woman (rape her) into sex so that he can make her his wife. All that's required is a bit of money.
 

Posted Jan 11, '14 at 6:51pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,108 posts

(oh, and I think you copied the wrong quote there...)


Well now..that is just a tad-bit embarrassing..

You know what, no. I totally meant to quote that. It's just...um..so obscure. Yeah. Totally.

As for the rest of what you mentioned, it comes from the quote in the bible about a man raping a woman, but KnightDeclan states that the actual quote is just about fornication in general.
 

Posted Jan 13, '14 at 10:54am

KnightDeclan

KnightDeclan

487 posts

Yeah, i'm not saying God's allowing rape, I'm saying that this, in the traditional bible, doesn't have to mean rape. What if both parties are willing?

 

Posted Jan 13, '14 at 2:58pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

What if both parties are willing?


Then I'd find it strange that the man would be required to pay if they each wanted to be together, but that's beside the point.

The law doesn't make a distinction between consensual sex and rape. It just says that if a man sleeps with a woman they must wed. Well, that applies to rape too. The problem is this oversight, which rewards the rapist and further victimizes the woman.

You'd think God would have made better laws, being omnipotent and all.
 

Posted Jan 14, '14 at 1:27pm

Fiends

Fiends

114 posts

Seems legit.

 
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