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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,151 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

A law is a law to be followed to the letter.
This is a correct definition for hypocrisy


No, this is what we call NOT hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is like saying thou shalt not kill and letting loads of people die everyday, like that guy in a book I once saw. I think he was called god, it was a bit of a he was really evil and was really powerful so he basically ruled over people as a dictator, since no on had the courage to stand up to him and came up with loads of stupid rules for them and once killed everyone in the world apart from a few people in a boat.

Anyway, if you really don't know what a word means, please don't try and define it because it makes you look stupid.

Just one more thing, the rule in the bible of thou shalt not kill was meant as thou shalt not kill Jews because god endorses lots of mass killings of non jews.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

In case you are unaware (as it seems that you are) hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another. Putting out a law and following it to the letter is the OPPOSITE of hypocricy.
Hmmmm. I have been accused of being a hypocrite here already. For me, hypocrisy is when the person stops seeing people behind the law. Hypocrisy is when a person used one statement of the law to condemn a neighbor, ignoring other statements that say to be charitable. Hypocrisy is when you are accusing someone of doing bad while being involved in similar activities, either in present or in past, which you didn't declare being bad for yourself (this is also double standards). Hypocrisy is extending and shrinking the boundaries of any statement's area of appliance (which is not defined with complete accuracy). So even a person who upholds the law to the letter has enough freedom to be a hypocrite. But indeed I was wrong stating this harsh.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Links please? Never heard anything like THIS. Opposing the use of condoms because they are designed to prevent children is one, and arguments of them reducing the risk of AIDS transmission is another. Journalists in fact like baked out sensations, and could say such conclusion ignoring its non-sequitur.


There are numerous news articles on the subject of the Pope declaring that condoms will worsen the AIDS epidemic, although I've never heard of the circumcision part. Here's one direct quote from the pope for you though from the Huffington Post:
"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."


Yet numerous studies show that proper condom usage is over 90% effective at halting the spread of AIDS.

Here's a private Vatican study's findings on AIDS and condom usage as preventive:
In 2003 a senior Vatican official claimed condoms had tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass, exposing thousands of people to risk.

The then head of the Vatican Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, said: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom."


And here's what the World Health Organization has to say:
"These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."


And let's not get started on the numerous myths surrounding AIDS which have created a truly horrifying environment in Africa, which could be avoided if someone of the influence like the Pope would address and correct with accurate information, like the idea that having sex with a virgin can cure you, which is leading to the **** of young women, some not even in their teens yet.

Hey Mr. Pope, why not spend some of the Church's money on educating these people so they stop spreading this disease instead of telling them false information which is causing more infections and more deaths? Oh, wait, you can't because that would be contrary to your goatherd's manual.

Religion: For when it's more important to defend your ignorance than save lives. And this is the type of mentality that I find repulsive and detrimental to humanity.
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Someone who practices hypocrisy, who pretends to hold beliefs, or whose actions are not consistent with their claimed beliefs.


This is the definition of hypocrite from wiktionary
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2009/march/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20090317_africa-interview_en.html
Original of interview. Question about AIDS is in there, and the wording used by journalists are inaccurate, as you can clearly see. Also, there are more "ifs" that those reporters disregard. So you should address complete interview recordings instead of journalist speculations, of course if they are available.
And here's what the World Health Organization has to say:
You know what, the WHO is funded by pharmaceutical companies who require their stuff to be sold. And huge money cause people to stop thinking about neighbors as humans, but only as source of money. Here are some cases.

And do you mind giving a link to where did you find that study?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

From the link you gave us for the Pope interview...

If there is no human dimension, if Africans do not help [by responsible behaviour], the problem cannot be overcome by the distribution of prophylactics: on the contrary, they increase it.


He sure seems to be saying that condoms DO increase the spread, any further questions?
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Original of interview. Question about AIDS is in there, and the wording used by journalists are inaccurate, as you can clearly see. Also, there are more "ifs" that those reporters disregard. So you should address complete interview recordings instead of journalist speculations, of course if they are available.


Yep, and he says exactly what I posted, "you cannot solve the AIDS problem with prophylactics (condoms), on the contrary they increase it." Certainly he is talking about numerous things which need to be addressed with the AIDS epidemic, but such a patently false statement, especially coming from someone with such a huge following, is irresponsible and potentially disastrous.

You know what, the WHO is funded by pharmaceutical companies who require their stuff to be sold.


Whether or not you like where they get their money the statement is factually correct.

Here's the link to the article I read on the Papal comment

And to prove the WHO comment accurate:

CDC Report on the effectiveness of condoms against HIV transmission

Report in the National Library of Medicine on condom effectiveness

Here's a link to the numerous scholarly works on condom testing against HIV transmission.

In short, the Pope was flat out wrong in his comment. Condoms are VASTLY effective at preventing the spread of HIV through sexual contact and could cut down the transmission of this horrible disease by up to 90% (or more) if all infected persons used them regularly and properly when engaging in any sexual contact.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

In short, the Pope was flat out wrong in his comment. Condoms are VASTLY effective at preventing the spread of HIV through sexual contact and could cut down the transmission of this horrible disease by up to 90% (or more) if all infected persons used them regularly and properly when engaging in any sexual contact.
The problem Pope speaks of is not just AIDS spreading, but the method how AIDS spreads, that is free sex, gender-independent, which is in fact promoted by condom distribution. As one kid once said to me, "A boy, a girl, what the a$$ difference" (can't be directly translated due to language-specific pun). If you look at the context, the Pope specifically addresses his words towards restoration of sexuality:
our twofold effort to renew humanity inwardly, to give spiritual and human strength for proper conduct towards our bodies and those of others, and this capacity to suffer with those who are suffering, to remain present in situations of trial
You're narrowing the problem to AIDS only. BTW, while there was no gays running wild over the world and minds of people, there was no AIDS.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

The problem Pope speaks of is not just AIDS spreading, but the method how AIDS spreads, that is free sex, gender-independent, which is in fact promoted by condom distribution. As one kid once said to me, "A boy, a girl, what the a$$ difference" (can't be directly translated due to language-specific pun). If you look at the context, the Pope specifically addresses his words towards restoration of sexuality:


I can understand that. However you cannot ignore the fact that it is irresponsible for the leader of the largest group of Christians on the planet to give out false information regarding something so serious as AIDS, especially in the nations hardest hit by this epidemic. Nothing changes the fact that he is wrong about his claims and they will likely end up costing lives.

You're narrowing the problem to AIDS only. BTW, while there was no gays running wild over the world and minds of people, there was no AIDS.


Your blatant bigotry disgusts me. I'm seriously fed up with it. Also, just FYI, homosexuality is present among nearly all species, and likely has been for millions of years, so your bigoted BS argument is ridiculous and untrue. AIDS is also an evolved form of SIV, Simian Immunodeficiency Virus, present in our cousins, the chimps and other monkeys. It wasn't started to wipe out gays, or because of gays, or anything along those lines.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

while there was no gays running wild over the world and minds of people, there was no AIDS.


Congratulations, you are now a confirmed bigot. I hope you're happy with yourself. AIDs was in no way started by homosexuality.

Here's an article on where it originated...

Where AIDs originated

And here's some more info.

Additional Info

And last but not least, an article to show that your statement is that you are an ignorant Bigot.

AIDs can spread through any bodily fluid, not just by gays
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Just to elaborate on the 'homosexual' thing: One known reason that transfer is higher among homosexuals is due to the structure of the anus and the surrounding interior areas. The flesh is thinner, capillaries much nearer the surface, and there aren't nearly as many disease fighting agents in the region. This means that the likelihood of the contaminated fluid entering the recipient's bloodstream is much higher.

The vagina, on the other hand is intended to have foreign bodies introduced to it via intercourse so the fluids there and the structure of it are far more resistant to infection, and especially the introduction of foreign bodies directly into the bloodstream.

vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

oh well. Regardless, you should notice that the Pope didn't say anything specific on the medicinal aspect of AIDS spread, and his words have a religious meaning more than mundane. Since we're speaking on different grounds, this discussion ends in a stalemate. Could you please go back 2-3 pages and find more arguments that haven't been discussed on yet?

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

you should notice that the Pope didn't say anything specific on the medicinal aspect of AIDS spread


What part of 'using condoms makes the situation worse' is NOT a medicinal aspect? AIDS is a disease. Condoms stop the transmission of the disease. Medicine is concerned with disease. That's not medicinal how?
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

What part of 'using condoms makes the situation worse' is NOT a medicinal aspect?
&quotrophylactics" does not equal "condoms". On the side note sexual promiscuity, along with mass vaccination, is blamed for the initial spread of AIDS. Mass vaccination moved a lot forward and is ethically beneficial as an implementation process, though the route is still open and can't be closed. Condoms promote sexual promiscuity, and <-THIS is the problem Pope speaks of. You can't cure sexual promiscuity, which is a mortal sin in God's and Church's terms, by spreading out condoms, this spread only encourages this behavior.

What of the above you fail to understand?
Moe
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Moe
1,715 posts
Blacksmith

&quotrophylactics" does not equal "condoms"


While technically correct, prophylactics includes condoms. However pointing this out was a bad idea, since prophylactics are any medicine or course of action used to prevent a disease. That means that the Pope is telling people the only way to cure AIDS is to NOT use modern medicine at all.
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