ForumsWEPRTheism and Atheism

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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,156 posts
Shepherd

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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grimml
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grimml
881 posts
Peasant

Maybe he's lonely and wants to know that he is loved??

So God created us because he was lonely? Really?

And maybe he knows that it's the best for us.

Does it really matter if we believe in God? I can follow every rule of your religion and still not believe in God. So what's the point in faith?

Like if we didn't love our own mother, she would keep trying to make us love her.

My mother would NEVER say: Love me or I'll torture you... And if she said that, I wouldn't love her. I'd hate her...
Anyway, how are you supposed to love somebody you don't even know? How can I love somebody whose existence isn't even proven?
dair5
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dair5
3,389 posts
Farmer

Woah! What happened? No no no. God judges based on your heart, who you are as a person. I'm very certin Gandhi is happily in heaven right now. And anybody whose shamefully abused their power as a priest isn't.

SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

Romans 3:5-8

But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, "If falsehood enhances God;s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" Why not say - as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as come claim that we say - "Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

What confuses me is how athiests do not believe in a God, correct? Yet when bad things happen in the world, there is always God right there, for you to blame. When good things happen, its just the natural order of the universe.

Those are god's words, not man's words, you said so yourself.


The bible has no independent source, many people contributed to the works. If you call man speaking for God, on what they had experienced with God's teachings, "God's propaganda". Free Will, something God allowed us, and if he didn't you wouldn't be speaking to me about this, is something that all people who wrote in the Bible had.
SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

Revelations 22:18-19

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

Do estimate the probability. I haven't heard anything but "unlikely" from anyone of you.

0 - because God contradicts logic.
SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

0 - because God contradicts logic.


Is there any logic to living when you think there is no where to go after death?
Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

^ = What I mean is that

God exists OR God doesn't exist. The previous statement is a well-formed formula. The statement "God exists" is either true or false. And the statement God doesn't exist precludes God's existence, and God's existence precludes God's nonexistence. So here we can apply a classical logical system to God's existence.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

Is there any logic to living when you think there is no where to go after death?

Is there any reason to live when you have to be subservient to a God that will send you to Hell if you don't believe in Him? When you have to insubordinate your mind and force into it that He is "above logic" and is not to be questioned?
SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

On what bias would it stand upon?

Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

On what bias would it stand upon?

Can you clarify what you mean here?
Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

Clearly the religions that survive will be those with the most compelling accounts of what "really" happened.

SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
70 posts
Peasant

Simple, God's. It would be like taking the Tobbaco company's report that smoking does not cause cancer. Whatever it says will be heavily biased.


Is there any evidence to show that there were people who changed the Bible's words?
Einfach
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Einfach
1,455 posts
Peasant

Is there any logic to living when you think there is no where to go after death?

BTW, it's important to clarify what I mean by "logic."

What does one know if they don't have any empirical evidence? Well, you can define what it means to "imply" something else by starting with basic axioms, like the Axiom of Modus Ponens and a few others (there are different systems), and from this, you can arrive at statements that necessarily follow from these axioms.

By defining more functions, such as logical equivalence, 'and' and 'or' statements, and others, you can deduce quite a lot. And all this is independent of a God. And classical logic applies to any statement that either is or isn't, and you can still use an intuitionistic system (which has well-formed-formulas, the variables that you base your system off of) for things that classical logic doesn't apply to. Intuitionistic systems don't assume things to be either true or false, and thus can be applied to anything whatsoever - they only assume things to be true if they can be proven true and false if they can be proven false (in classical logic, you can assume that something is true if it is not false, and false if it is not true, and by the definition of true and false, this is true).
vesperbot
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vesperbot
958 posts
Peasant

People already make demands anyway. Haven't you heard of prayers?
These are not demands but requests. A request is: "I request this and this, but do what you see needed". A demand is "I request this and this, and I expect you to do, or else..." Many of the prayers are not requests indeed. Jesus said "Ask and you'll receive", but not "demand".
So in other words, he KNOWS who is going to never believe in him, is all powerful, aka able to do anything, and yet, sends those to hell, which is controlled by a fallen angel, who he also knew would do that, and chooses to let the devil stay, because a person created by a rib who had no knowledge of good and evil was told not to eat a fruit, even though god MADE the tree look super nice and the fruit look super yummy, and then condemned them and all of their decendents to eternal hellfire unless they did a bunch of ridiculous things, for something he could have prevented ENTIRELY in the first place, or just FORGIVEN them. That is NOT an all loving god. How you convulute your thinking to that this is a loving god, I have no idea.
Do control your passions. In fact God forgave Adam and Eve after they repented for not obeying Him.
Well he could at least make it look like a door.
Well, Jesus showed the way of life, and said that following this and Him will lead us to Heaven. Jn 10, full chapter.
You miss the point, the fact that a man of peace like Gandhi is hell bound while a pedo priest simply has to say three hail marys earns his way into heaven is, put simply, ****ed up.
I prefer to chill in hell with Gandhi then be with child molestor in heaven.
I mean, seriously, how the **** do you consider fair or just?
You just don't know what is repentance. There are many priests that go to Hell and lead others to Hell. I'm not saying that any priest who did that goes to Heaven. God uses personal approach when He judges us, and you never know who is in Hell, and why. We can only know if someone is in Heaven, it's when we ask some good person that's already dead for intercession before God, and God grants a miracle. Even then this event I called miracle has to be impossible to explain by current science, and investigated by both Church authorities and scientific authorities. AND, even then, the Church requires a second miracle as a viable proof of that person being in Heaven, after that that person is proclaimed saint.
Ah but you say the bible is the word of god, therefore, Romans 3:5-8 is simply God's propaganda and not an independent source.
What's an independent source, if one would assume God existing and Him granting the required wisdom of divine to people? <- No dodge please. If you E1337 will dodge this, then any further dialogue with you in this topic is fruitless.
0 - because God contradicts logic.
You claim that nothing illogical has zero probability to appear? In the material world it's true, but there's spiritual world that is insensible by anything material, where binary logic does not apply wholly (if at all, I can't say this for sure). People's souls belong there, but minds and words belong here.
Clearly the religions that survive will be those with the most compelling accounts of what "really" happened.
(once again) Do you mind totally demolishing the argument of Fatima's miracle happening along with visions of Virgin Mary predicting this to happen at the right time? If there will be no counter, then we can only assume that the entire set of Fatima's events is true, along with what the Virgin said to those children.
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