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thepyro222
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thepyro222
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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314d1
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314d1
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Excatly what im saying. So what makes me ignorant and you not? Is it that you've read the wikipedia page?


Pretty much. It is that I understand what we are talking about, while you don't. You don't understand what macro and microevelution is, making you ignorant. I do, which means I am not ignorant about the subject. Any questions?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Then i am as ignorant as you, unless you happen to be a professor in evolution and science


No I'm not, I have a working understanding of science and the theory of evolution. If we are on the same level of understanding then your deliberately lying.

Anyway since you didn't like the wiki source how's this?
http://www.transitionalfossils.com/
http://www.livescience.com/3306-fossils-reveal-truth-darwin-theory.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part1a.html
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/tiktaalik-transitional-fossil.png
Somers
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Somers
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You don't understand what macro and microevelution is, making you ignorant


The word ignorant is over used, and in that case, 3/4 of the world are ignorant.

I dislike how this thread was meant to be a friendly conversation, but, as always it turns into this huge fight between wether or not we can prove which side is right. Were never going to make any progress this way.

Going back to the original topic...

I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ.


Pyro, can you explain more? I wanna know the feeling you had, you simply couldnt had of just walked into a church and felt this
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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I hate when stupidity reaches critical mass and I feel like I have to jump in. Curse you, current WEPR regulars!

Marcoevolution is a theory.


I like poloevolution better. But on a more serious note, it is a scientific theory. Meaning that there is evidence all over the place for it and that it has been peer-reviewed and studied and blah-blah-blah and nothing has turned up that would refute it. You are supporting it by calling it a theory. Also, it's micro and macro, not mirco and marco.

We can never have a Christian debate on this site without an atheist involved, can we? Sigh...


Don't act like a victim. You're not being bashed for your views (except for by highfire and 314, but for god's sakes, call them out on that and you win an internet, because it's to your advantage, not theirs), and someone disagreeing with you does not mean that they are bashing you. You're not being oppressed or persecuted or anything, so the woe-is-me attitude ends up looking like a poor attempt at trying to win the argument with your puppy-dog face instead of your arguments. And the whole idea of a debate is that there are differing views - having two Christians talk about Jesus isn't a debate.

Evolution is not a part of science, even though many scientists and people like that happen to be scientists. It's sort of like a religion. Christianity is not a science, but it tells pretty much the same thing as Evolution. Different stories, same topic. Science and religion should not be made equal.


Evolution is a scientific theory - the microevolution part of it even universally accepted as fact. Evolution is not a religion because all it does is detail a very simple, provable, demonstrable, natural process - the adaptation of life forms over time. It deals with the origin of life as much as Christianity deals with muffin breeding safety guidelines, which is to say not at all. The acceptance of microevolution is all that is needed to accept macroevolution, because macroevolution is just evolution over long periods of time.

Science deals with what is and also explains things that are, not about what was.


Science deals with everything. Anything that can be studied and researched falls under the jurisdiction of science. The past can be and is researched . . . frankly I have NO idea where you got this idea.

That's what I meant - all three religions deal with the real earth.


Calling evolution a religion when it clearly is not is doing nothing to help your argument. It's a poor attempt at subversion that just makes you look like you're trying to avoid actually arguing your points.

Nope. I didn't. You know why? They probly all said that Christianity doesn't have any evidence and left it at that. You can't prove that there is no evidence. Besides, it's a religion.


Read the links. They'll educate you - they don't argue against Christianity (I've looked through most of them), they argue for evolution and provide lots of evidence and important facts that make a lot of your points invalid and clarify a lot of things for both sides. Read. Learn.

Someone read my link!!! This made me happy. From now on, I will read every link you give me just so long as it's not over two pages in length.


If someone provides you with evidence and you disregard it because of silly bargaining or the length of the article, you're setting yourself up for arguing a point based on misinformation or ignorance, and then they automatically win because they have the facts and you don't. Once again, read their sources because doing so educates you and then you're not open to being flat-out wrong due to your ignorance on the subject.

Mainly, Darwin observed microevolution when studying the finches. He then used his observation of microevolution and said that marcoevolution occured. If marcoevolution were true, we would find fossils to be slowly changing over time, but there are large gaps in fossil records between species that are believed to evolutions of the others. Due to that gap, marcoevolution can't have happened...... etc. etc.


Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Mage also happened to have a few links and pictures and such of these transitional fossils, and I'm sure I could find some, so I'll get on that.

So, basically, everyone who doesn't believe in Evolution won't give a scientific answer.


No. He wants to get scientific support for these religious things you are claiming. Also, do you have any sources to support the water canopy? It sounds pretty Creationist-Sciencey (CS for future reference) to me.

Not everything larger is the same but bigger. The numbers, when doubled, most likely will not be the same. For example, if we were ten times larger, we would be dead. I have a source, but it's from a book and I would have to find it. So. If you want it, tell me.


You don't seem to understand the concept of macroevolution. Microevolution is change from one generation to the next, and it is but a reductionist lens for looking at macroevolution. Macroevolution is 2 and micro is 1+1. Nothing else. There is not some magic fairy dust sprinkled onto macroevolution that makes any different from larger units of microevolution.

But you still admit there are some.


Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

2. Microevolution is not small Macroevolution.


They're different units of measurement on the same timeline. Macroevolution being a larger unit does not mean that it does not hold the exact same validity as microevolution does.

Seriously? Because we have differing opinions doesn't mean mine is unscientific/logical/rational. I have stated how the gaps in the fossils disprove marcoevolution. Is that unlogical?


YES. YES IT IS. IT IS IT IS IT IS IT IS IT IISSSSSSS *dies*

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We shouldn't look at the gaps and think "well, I guess evolution is impossible", we should look at it and think "better do some more digging, because this here fossil record thing is incomplete".

That's the big bang theory, right?


That was the formation of universe, not the beginning of life. Beginning of life has abiogenesis.

ANYWAY, 314 needs to play nice here - Mage is being nice and cordial as usual - and the Christians need to realize that they don't know what the fazoli they're talking about and learn what evolution actually means and is. *sighS*
jeol
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jeol
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Your being irrelevant again.

I'm an expert at that. And I had no idea where that X came from.

I didn't realize making equations that don't work was so fun!

E=A*P/R and we'll throw in a random S... And everybody knows S=20...
E=A*P/R+S-20
Should come out to...
E=H/R Which way should it go?
H=ER And according to you guys, E=/=R, so... (in this case 7, H=49)
ER/H=0? Of course that still does not answer the question, 'cause...
(0)R/H=0 (me happy) or E(0)/H=0 (you happy)... So I guess it will remain a mystery until after we die, when we ask Jesus if Evolution was true...
The word ignorant is over used, and in that case, 3/4 of the world are ignorant.

Oo! I'm ignorant.
I dislike how this thread was meant to be a friendly conversation, but, as always it turns into this huge fight between wether or not we can prove which side is right. Were never going to make any progress this way.

This was definitely posted in the wrong forum...
You don't understand what macro and microevelution is, making you ignorant. I do, which means I am not ignorant about the subject. Any questions?

Am I allowed to work this one out?
I=-M
Ignorance does not equal misunderstanding? I'm confused.

Okay, I'll stop doing equations. Technically, we are ignorant to the fact of how m/Mcroevolution could be true, how your equation works out. You're changing the final answer.
314d1
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314d1
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ANYWAY, 314 needs to play nice here - Mage is being nice and cordial as usual - and the Christians need to realize that they don't know what the fazoli they're talking about and learn what evolution actually means and is. *sighS*


Come on. You pretty much paraphrased everything I just said, adding your own statements here and there (By the way, next person to bash This gets a cookie, which is better than an internet). You where only slightly-less aggressive than I was. So why is it I who always gets told to "Play nice"?
jeol
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jeol
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They're different units of measurement on the same timeline. Macroevolution being a larger unit does not mean that it does not hold the exact same validity as microevolution does.

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU.
That was the formation of universe, not the beginning of life. Beginning of life has abiogenesis.

Yeah, I've only been told that 500,000,000,000,000 times today...
No. He wants to get scientific support for these religious things you are claiming. Also, do you have any sources to support the water canopy? It sounds pretty Creationist-Sciencey (CS for future reference) to me.

Only the link I already gave.
Read the links. They'll educate you - they don't argue against Christianity (I've looked through most of them), they argue for evolution and provide lots of evidence and important facts that make a lot of your points invalid and clarify a lot of things for both sides. Read. Learn.

Okay, I'll read when my brain uncomfuzzlings itself. I should get some sleep. G'night.
314d1
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314d1
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I'm an expert at that. And I had no idea where that X came from.


Have you been flying high, like Jesus, again?

Oo! I'm ignorant.


You just admitted it?

Ignorance does not equal misunderstanding? I'm confused.


I suppose it can. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. You seem to have incomplete knowledge, thus a lack of said knowlage.

Okay, I'll stop doing equations. Technically, we are ignorant to the fact of how m/Mcroevolution could be true, how your equation works out. You're changing the final answer.


What? You are ignorant of what evolution is. Read the Wikipedia article on it at least...
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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Come on. You pretty much paraphrased everything I just said, adding your own statements here and there (By the way, next person to bash This gets a cookie, which is better than an internet). You where only slightly-less aggressive than I was. So why is it I who always gets told to "Play nice"?


I started typing this, went away for a few hours, then came back and finished it. And you always get told to play nice because you're always the one with the insults and the bull**** meters and stuff like that. It's almost a custom of mine to tell you to chill out :P

I have plenty of cookies to pass around, no need to bash me~

http://files.stpaulqc.org/uploaded_images/cookies-775637.JPG
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Mage is being nice and cordial as usual


Been trying to here but it hasn't been made easy. Besides I thought I had the rep of being an intelligent ***hole.
314d1
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314d1
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Been trying to here but it hasn't been made easy. Besides I thought I had the rep of being an intelligent ***hole.


I thought that was my job?

I have plenty of cookies to pass around, no need to bash me~


Fine, those who bash This can haz cheezeburger.

I started typing this, went away for a few hours, then came back and finished it. And you always get told to play nice because you're always the one with the insults and the bull**** meters and stuff like that. It's almost a custom of mine to tell you to chill out :P


Hey, that's my job...
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
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Been trying to here but it hasn't been made easy. Besides I thought I had the rep of being an intelligent ***hole.


You're an ***hole for being correct, not an ***hole for ***holery :P

Fine, those who bash This can haz cheezeburger.


I'm the salt of the earth - I mean scum.

Cheezburger plox
thepyro222
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thepyro222
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Thank you my fellow brothers and sisters of the LORD for all of the support. Just ignore the atheists and let's actually talk about the bible. I have read through Genesis, and I find the story of Jacob really inspiring. What do you guys think about it?

Xzeno
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Xzeno
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You have a reputation for posting youtube links instead of saying anything of substance. Also, for the record, I like you.

This thread is a joke. Pyro posted a story about finding something real. Some lofty truth unique to him, and his life has been improved for it. Figures he would be thrown to the mercy of those who don't understand him. You aggressive nihilists attack his path to truth and think yourselves wiser for it. You see a startling moment of self-discovery and turn it into a crusade against an idea, at the same time cursing those who force their ideas on others. You are not enlightened bringers of the truth. You're blind groping about the darkness for truth and, when you find none, you claw at any shreds of meaning another has found, hating what you don't understand.

Find your own way.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
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@E1337, I never said it was, just the first in order of the Holy Book. I have no idea what is put where

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