ForumsGames[Main Thread] CoD? Put it here!

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Cenere
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Cenere
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Apparently the effort of cleaning up the forums has been biased, so the CoD group get their own thread for discussing as well.
Enjoy.

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KentyBK
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KentyBK
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Why do you think RTS' are being made? What is so entertaining about commanding units etc?


Because there's people that -value- this kind of game. ;D

But what about it as an art form


Call me crazy, but I can't say I care whether it's considered an "art form" or not. Art itself is a highly subjective term as is, so even IF it is, the definition might still differ between people. o-0

While I can see why people would want to call for it to be considered art (with it having a higher standing in society and all that), I can see a few downsides too, mainly from misinterpreting the term "art".

I'm mainly referring to "Art games", which are basically interactive poems and other such things that were made to "make a point", or "state a message", which is the sole focus instead of being -fun-.

I feel those get further away from what makes a "game" (and I say that in quotation marks because the definition can vary also ;P).

Not to mention it risks developers going crazy with "imagination" because they think they are modern day artists or something.

would you say the mining on Minecraft


Of course, the thing that makes Minecraft work is that you don't HAVE to do any mining whatsoever ;D

People do consistently ramble on about "balance issues" (which honestly is quite often their incapability to think of other methods to counter it), and sometimes they're right if you ask me


Well the thing about balance is that it CAN work even if not perfectly balanced, as long as it isn't so bad it limits the game (by that I mean an unbeatable move/character/weapon/etc.). I hear Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was badly balanced, but the difference was that every character was so broken that they'd each have a different trick to exploit ;D

And THAT'S fun.

The usefulness of the Online Mode depends on how good the community is.


Which in turn, depends on how the online modes are designed. ;D
A good Multiplayer game will always attract a bigger community than a bad one.

No. It's a teamwork game and the main things related to that is just using your gear to get points, and spawning on your teammates, no real communication or coordination is being made.


That's the thing. I'd argue making it a "mandatory" Multiplayer mode is actually limiting a players choice. If someone wants to play lonely wolf, why not let them? (And on a side note, if we talk bad communities.........the Minecraft one is ridiulously terrible with all it's elitism and drama T_T).

It is harmful when someone has a major advantage over another in the game simply by choice.


Agreed. It only works if there are several working choices (even if those choices are unbalanced, even better if they counter each other).

but in the end other weapons were placed there for a reason, and it is bad design if they are not used.


To be fair, some of those are just used to be replaced once you unlock the better ones :3

As for Magicka, how seriously is it supposed to be taken?


Admittedly, I think this a fair point, but is that really a good argument for unbalance in general? Imagine what happened if the game was basically unwinnable alone, or way too easy.

That argument seems like the easy way for a developer to use. "Just for fun" still doesn't mean you shouldn't check if the balance of your game works or not.

Or when I miss a Thunder Bolt and instantly kills one of my teammates - now THAT'S overpowered.


Pffffff Try Stone-Ice-Ice-Ice-Ice

It kills everything. EVERYTHING I say (and it's pretty easy to cast and remember too )

Oh and yes I think spawns relate to balance to a game


Obviously.

Hehe - not my standpoint, and yeah that is definitely the standpoint of a lot of developers and certainly publishers.


Well it's how they make money for more games so it only makes sense.

Finding them is difficult, it'd be joining empty servers of the mod and testing it myself -- which is not the way to do it, being how bad it could be without teammates or enemies, etc.


Which is why you should advertise your mods and get people interested (on some random forum maybe). If it's actually great, it will gather a lot more interest that way.

Same with the market. CoD is one of the top and being king of the hill they have a high chance of remaining a high-profile franchise for a while longer, especially since they come out with a new game every year.


Remember when I mentioned 5) Franchises ? It's very much the one thing I'd say that adds to the hype machine and leads to giving a game customer value, which might be "undeserved" otherwise, if that makes sense.

But I believe, any franchise that is builds on something "bad" will ultimately destroy itself.

Look at Sonic, Final Fantasy, Metroid and a few others. If they don't watch out, there could be some CoD down the line that cripples the franchise.

It's a shooter being made by an indie title -- hell, the only reason I know about it is because Totalbiscuit talked about it.


I saw it on Steam a while ago, though I didn't really care with it being a shooter and all.

Word of mouth? Yes.


There's a difference. Compare it and Minecraft. When Minecraft started to boom, people made videos and reviews ALL OVER the internet (to the point where Minecraft Let's Plays have become generic). I don't see the same thing happening with Section 8.

But in a way what you've said has been contradictory - you say sales indicate the quality of a game and yet a good game is through word of mouth?


I said a good game can essentially market itself, without the need for advertising, through word of mouth, not that word of mouth is the ONLY thing.

Because once people recommend the game everywhere, the game basically markets itself (similar to Wii Sports, since I doubt the 70 million people that bought a Wii were checking up on the latest gaming news ;D).

In the case of a lot of AAA games, they NEED marketing from publishers because they don't attract much attention by themselves.

Consider the media attention CoD has received, it's a huge point used by CoD fans and be fair -- have you had difficulty convincing someone to try out a game you love but has not been heard of or anything?


Actually no, because I've got atleast 5 people into Minecraft, even though they never heard of it before (and none of them were very big into gaming related info to begin with).

And that's exactly the point I was trying to make. An excellent game is something you can easily convince someone to buy just by talking about it, or showing them video of it. Having trouble getting people interested in it, is the first symptom of a "bad" game.

That's when I met it, and that's probably when a lot of others did too.


Meh, I first met it as annoying DRM on The Last Remnant >_>

I abandoned it after I finished that one.

And then, I finally returned to it to buy the excellent Super Meat Boy (and stayed on the lookout for awesome stuff ever since).
dank40
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dank40
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I absolutely cannot wait until MW3 is released. With the return of quickscoping, this is going to be a huge success. I knew COD: Black Ops just wasn't for me when I found out there was no quickscoping.

Gstroy
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I will give you +1 Internetz if that is correct.

Not that I care, to be quite frank, but that's quite a good eagle eye :P

Or too much free time xD

I don't know :>

- H
Ehhh... a little of both I'd say... lol.
Highfire
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Because there's people that -value- this kind of game. ;D

Yes but WHY?!
Because:
1) You like the idea of it (or the more "natural one&quot or
2) You like having more POWER than you could being a vulnerable and single soldier.

Call me crazy, but I can't say I care whether it's considered an "art form" or not. Art itself is a highly subjective term as is, so even IF it is, the definition might still differ between people. o-0

Under the situation that it is an art form (correct me if I'm wrong - it is legally art, correct?), then I feel those that have higher quality aren't the most renowned ones.
Is the Mona Lisa the best piece of art ? Maybe for how well known it is and who it was made by, but truthfully is the actually appearance of it better than others?

I can see a few downsides too, mainly from misinterpreting the term "art".
I'm mainly referring to "Art games", which are basically interactive poems and other such things that were made to "make a point", or "state a message", which is the sole focus instead of being -fun-.
I feel those get further away from what makes a "game" (and I say that in quotation marks because the definition can vary also ;P).
Not to mention it risks developers going crazy with "imagination" because they think they are modern day artists or something.

Definitely. Sadly this can easily be the case with developers and it can be fairly upsetting.

Of course, the thing that makes Minecraft work is that you don't HAVE to do any mining whatsoever ;D

It's a very nice option to actually be able to mine it, as stupid as it sounds, it makes things more natural - perhaps you deforest a group of trees on the shore, and using only that wood you make a ship, which has carried stone directly from the mine a small distance away?

It's where you see where EVERYTHING came from. Of course, it is more time consuming and may not be as useful for large scale operations or an attempt to actually make some good terrain / atmospheres.

Well it's how they make money for more games so it only makes sense.

It truly does, but I feel (this is going a bit back on-topic now ) CoD has gotten lazy and has just leeched off of its predecessor which made them so popular - CoD4.

Which is why you should advertise your mods and get people interested (on some random forum maybe). If it's actually great, it will gather a lot more interest that way.

Okay, that's a fair idea and I may end up using it but, here's the standpoint of someone in my position (what could be the standpoint, anyway):
I have Footmen
I have Star Battle
I have Zone Control
I have Smashcraft
I have Marine Arena
I have Zealot Frenzy
I have Battlecraft
I have MineralZ
I have Desert Strike 1338

I don't need any more. :O

TLR -- I have enough things, I don't need any more (and to be blunt, I can't be bothered looking for it).

Even so, you have the problem of not having enough players in that specific mod. I can go to the fifth page, join a random mod and see that no one will come for so long - that's a big problem.

Although there is a "Fun or Not" system they have implemented - you play a random mod with other people (they find people playing it or people from Fun or Not) and at the end of it you give it a thumbs up or thumbs down which in turn directly affects its status.

Remember when I mentioned 5) Franchises ? It's very much the one thing I'd say that adds to the hype machine and leads to giving a game customer value, which might be "undeserved" otherwise, if that makes sense.

Indeed, also, this is probably one big thing going for ME2 - wasn't it selected as Game of the Year? I know for a fact it was certainly close, others in the fight was Bad Company 2 and Starcraft II.

I will NOT say that Game of the Year's accurate but GotY is a pretty big deal.

I saw it on Steam a while ago, though I didn't really care with it being a shooter and all.

Steam is good for indie titles, it's very good for indie developers and I'm thinking we're going to see more awesome stuff. :>

In the case of a lot of AAA games, they NEED marketing from publishers because they don't attract much attention by themselves.

CoD appears to very well, it is talked about so much by it's fans (at the least the ones that I know), considering how much attention they've been given, and the media attention from reviewers etc they could receive.... They have a better chance than indie developers.

There's a difference. Compare it and Minecraft. When Minecraft started to boom, people made videos and reviews ALL OVER the internet (to the point where Minecraft Let's Plays have become generic). I don't see the same thing happening with Section 8.

Section 8 hasn't boomed, but I see your point

And that's exactly the point I was trying to make. An excellent game is something you can easily convince someone to buy just by talking about it, or showing them video of it. Having trouble getting people interested in it, is the first symptom of a "bad" game.

In a way I disagree. The problem with Amnesia is that it would actually be difficult getting people into it until they try it -- "Oh, a horror game, herpa derp why not get F.3.A.R?"

The need to see the game on full-scope is a hint of a good game. Every detail has its part.

It's situational I'd say - something like CoD, yeah, you can talk about it, something like Battlefield? So-so, if you ask me. Something like Crysis 2? So-so, again.

Amnesia? Definitely need to PLAY it (watching it is not the same).
Starcraft? Watching a lot of videos works out well (I've seen over 200 professional games...
Yes I have too much free time).

Meh, I first met it as annoying DRM on The Last Remnant >_>
I abandoned it after I finished that one.
And then, I finally returned to it to buy the excellent Super Meat Boy (and stayed on the lookout for awesome stuff ever since).

Just to clarify... We're both talking about Steam, right?

Ehhh... a little of both I'd say... lol.

Hehe, I guess we can only wait.

- H
jt25rox
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jt25rox
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Honsety call of duty should just make a game about nazi zombie nothing else. They should bring back all the maps. Campaign should be the creation of nazi zombies and u wont b alone there will be two people with you. Then u have to fight ur way through all the maps with a couple new ones. To gain success u only hav to get to round 15. multiplayer is just normal multiplayer. This may say dumb

calemango
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calemango
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I can only experience CoD on the xbox 360, and while defeating zombies in the game I lose sincerely. Hopefully, if they create a call of duty game ONLY based on nazi zombies I'll b better.

EverDead
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EverDead
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I got instantly bored on CoD Black Ops with the zombie mode.
Corse I was playing on the Wii, but I was still bored.

DeadFamous
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DeadFamous
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I like playing Black Ops. I've only been playing it for a few hours, but I enjoy the quick action that's guaranteed for any game mode.

KentyBK
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KentyBK
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Yes but WHY?!
Because:
1) You like the idea of it (or the more "natural one&quot or
2) You like having more POWER than you could being a vulnerable and single soldier.


Why would someone like to play RTS? Hmmmmmmm tough question (which might be more subjective than anything I could hope to guess xP).

I'd say it's because, like most good games, RTS offers a wide variety of player choices. The difference here is that, unlike an Adventure or RPG, an RTS game HAS to be built around player choices and strategy, which also means it's one of those genres where a good balance is generally better than a bad one.

TL;DR I'd say the vast amount of choices in units,strategies, etc.

(correct me if I'm wrong - it is legally art, correct?)


I have no idea honestly. That might also be situational depending on the country. :S

then I feel those that have higher quality aren't the most renowned ones.
Is the Mona Lisa the best piece of art ? Maybe for how well known it is and who it was made by, but truthfully is the actually appearance of it better than others?


Did I not hammer this point in enough? xD

Just BECAUSE something sells, doesn't mean it is better than other things.

But at the same time, something that is very good in the eyes of the market will sell strongly.

It gets a little confusing if you don't seperate the ACTUAL quality of a game, with a game being quality because the market wants it.

A game could have the best gameplay/graphics/replayability EVER, but it'll still fail if it's something that the market isn't interested in(or even outright refuses)

A good game needs to be both of those things and maybe even more (by being so good it attracts people that aren't part of your core market - something that the Wii did exceptionally well at launch) in order to be truly considered "good" (or maybe even a "classic" if you will).

It truly does, but I feel (this is going a bit back on-topic now ) CoD has gotten lazy and has just leeched off of its predecessor which made them so popular - CoD4.


Which is why one shouldn't try imitate CoD in general, but CoD4 specifically since that is the one that started it all.

As an example, look at Zelda. All modern Zelda games are designed after Ocarina Of Time (which is the most successful one of them). But what they SHOULD be doing, instead of trying to copy the Ocarina formula, is looking at the influences that INSPIRED the Ocarina formula in the first place.

Okay, that's a fair idea and I may end up using it but, here's the standpoint of someone in my position (what could be the standpoint, anyway):
I have Footmen
I have Star Battle
I have Zone Control
I have Smashcraft
I have Marine Arena
I have Zealot Frenzy
I have Battlecraft
I have MineralZ
I have Desert Strike 1338

I don't need any more. :O

TLR -- I have enough things, I don't need any more (and to be blunt, I can't be bothered looking for it).

Even so, you have the problem of not having enough players in that specific mod. I can go to the fifth page, join a random mod and see that no one will come for so long - that's a big problem.


I admit this might be a problem that's very specific to Starcraft, because it is, by design, a Multiplayer game. A game like Oblivion wouldn't need several people testing mods at the same time.

I will NOT say that Game of the Year's accurate but GotY is a pretty big deal.


To repeat what I've said in another thread: I don't even think so. From what I see, GOTY is just another attempt at hyping, instead from the media instead of publishers.

It would be much more interesting if there weren't 313231 individual GOTY awards.

Steam is good for indie titles, it's very good for indie developers and I'm thinking we're going to see more awesome stuff. :>


Ehhhh, Steam is little more than a marketing platform for me(to buy stuff that I've already heard about xP). I normally check stuff like the indie games blog to check up on games I might be interested in.

Not to mention there's LOADS of free and awesome Indie games (Hydorah being a very awesome example).

In a way I disagree. The problem with Amnesia is that it would actually be difficult getting people into it until they try it -- "Oh, a horror game, herpa derp why not get F.3.A.R?"

The need to see the game on full-scope is a hint of a good game. Every detail has its part.

It's situational I'd say - something like CoD, yeah, you can talk about it, something like Battlefield? So-so, if you ask me. Something like Crysis 2? So-so, again.

Amnesia? Definitely need to PLAY it (watching it is not the same).
Starcraft? Watching a lot of videos works out well (I've seen over 200 professional games...
Yes I have too much free time).


Again, I'd say Amnesia is a special case,since it relies a lot on its horror and atmosphere. Just like you wouldn't be able to properly describe a horror movie to someone.

Just to clarify... We're both talking about Steam, right?


Yes,yes I am. Last Remnant actually required you sign up for Steam even if you bought it in retail :S
superskip
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superskip
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Blacks ops was not that good apart from zombies, love the new dlc (annihilation) shangra-li is one of the best maps. Hope they continue the zombies series or at-least make a clear but good ending.

jesseses
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jesseses
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i think the modern warfare series are better exept for the zombies.
they should put zombies in mw3 that really makes it better

Gstroy
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Gstroy
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i think the modern warfare series are better exept for the zombies. they should put zombies in mw3 that really makes it better
IW would just do what they did with the MW series... screw it up.
Highfire
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TL;DR I'd say the vast amount of choices in units,strategies, etc.

Yes but that stretches to the nature of "freedom", I'm talking about natural or instinctive entertainment. Granted, violence probably isn't natural with the exception of self-defense and hunting (or taking hunting grounds for survivial / prosperity).

Did I not hammer this point in enough? xD

It was mostly rhetorical.

A game could have the best gameplay/graphics/replayability EVER, but it'll still fail if it's something that the market isn't interested in(or even outright refuses)

In which case, I've little leverage in my argument -- there's not a great deal I can back it up with except looking at objective facts and subjective logic.

I admit this might be a problem that's very specific to Starcraft, because it is, by design, a Multiplayer game. A game like Oblivion wouldn't need several people testing mods at the same time.

Indeed - out of all the mods I know, I can think of a few which are better for multiplayer but still able to be played by one player, and another called Terran Facility: 17 which I swear to you is an attempt to replicate Sonny 2 - it has IDENTICAL music, it has nearly identical gameplay and I promise you it is amazing to play even with 1 player.

It would be much more interesting if there weren't 313231 individual GOTY awards.

Indeed, that's why I'm afraid to say it as a fact because someone could easily come along "No you derp *insert famous game here* is the GoTY!"

Ehhhh, Steam is little more than a marketing platform for me(to buy stuff that I've already heard about xP). I normally check stuff like the indie games blog to check up on games I might be interested in.
Not to mention there's LOADS of free and awesome Indie games (Hydorah being a very awesome example).

I often get what I already know but that is through word of mouth - Totalbiscuit being the biggest one. He was the one who highlighted Magicka, and was the one who (for me at least) highlighted Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Again, I'd say Amnesia is a special case,since it relies a lot on its horror and atmosphere. Just like you wouldn't be able to properly describe a horror movie to someone.

Depending on what the focus of effects of the games were, it does vary. That's one of the reasons I said "so-so" for Battlefield and Crysis. Crysis has for the most part just flat out great graphics - but Battlefield has plenty of audio and visual effects which make an amazing atmosphere.

Yes,yes I am. Last Remnant actually required you sign up for Steam even if you bought it in retail :S

As did Modern Warfare 2 I believe.

It would help if Steam was more publically recognised - it's certainly growing but nonetheless.

- H
KentyBK
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KentyBK
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Yes but that stretches to the nature of "freedom", I'm talking about natural or instinctive entertainment.


Is there really a point in seperating entertainment? I find that just gets overly subjective, since everyone prefers different kinds of entertainment.

Granted, violence probably isn't natural with the exception of self-defense and hunting (or taking hunting grounds for survivial / prosperity).


Those are......somewhat big exceptions o.0

But I think that feeling of "natural" or "instinctive" entertainment doesn't exactly have much to do with the RTS genre specifically.

I'd say that comes from the age old human nature to defeat opponents (and prove superiority), which got into games ever since Multiplayer was invented (and if we consider Tennis for 2.......pretty much always xP). The reason RTS has a lot of that is because that's the most Multiplayer-centric genre I can think of (apart from MMOs maybe).

Terran Facility: 17 which I swear to you is an attempt to replicate Sonny 2 - it has IDENTICAL music, it has nearly identical gameplay and I promise you it is amazing to play even with 1 player.


After looking at it myself, I'd disagree. It seems VERY heavily inspired by FF7: the battle system is pretty much a complete copy (which isn't a bad thing mind you) and the beginning was a big homage to it too (it also started with the hero entering a city by jumping off a train xP). Heck, even the Title screen-ish picture was directly ripped from that game xD

I often get what I already know but that is through word of mouth - Totalbiscuit being the biggest one. He was the one who highlighted Magicka, and was the one who (for me at least) highlighted Amnesia: The Dark Descent.


But Let's Players have their own taste too, which means it's very easy to miss awesome games you might enjoy personally (which is why I only ever watch those channels to do "research" on games I already intend on getting).
Highfire
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Highfire
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Is there really a point in seperating entertainment? I find that just gets overly subjective, since everyone prefers different kinds of entertainment.

Yes but my point is that entertainment in a natural sense is more approachable by everyone - when people actually think about what they like they may have opinions differing to that of other people, CoD is instinctive entertainment if you ask me.

But I think that feeling of "natural" or "instinctive" entertainment doesn't exactly have much to do with the RTS genre specifically.

My point exactly.

The reason RTS has a lot of that is because that's the most Multiplayer-centric genre I can think of (apart from MMOs maybe).

The campaigns of RTS's (being as it has to have freedom otherwise it's not really an RTS) are very good, MMO's are definitely the biggest multiplayer-centric games. :P

After looking at it myself, I'd disagree. It seems VERY heavily inspired by FF7: the battle system is pretty much a complete copy (which isn't a bad thing mind you) and the beginning was a big homage to it too (it also started with the hero entering a city by jumping off a train xP). Heck, even the Title screen-ish picture was directly ripped from that game xD

Gameplay was very familiar to Sonny 2 from what I remember - that, and it had the same music.

Perhaps both? :P

- H
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