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Suicide

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 2:08pm

sensanaty

sensanaty

862 posts

they end up in heaven anyway and in heaven everything is good. so their problems will be gone when they are in heaven.

I love how everyone ignores one simple fact about suicide and religion. God doesn't like suicide. Suicide is an express train ticket to hell.

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 2:23pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,082 posts

Knight

I love how everyone ignores one simple fact about suicide and religion. God doesn't like suicide. Suicide is an express train ticket to hell.

Generally they commit suicide because they're already living through hell, so they might only have a weary smile left for that idea. They just want to end it, not reach heaven.

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 3:40pm

ghg429xl

ghg429xl

2 posts

I think it is a perm. solution to a temp. problem..

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 3:52pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,082 posts

Knight

I think it is a perm. solution to a temp. problem..

But what do you actually do about it? Do you just laugh at suicidal people and make things worse, or do you care about the issue and try to help them?

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 3:55pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,109 posts

God doesn't like suicide. Suicide is an express train ticket to hell.

who said so? is it in the bible?

anyway, you can kill someone els, then ask god forgiveness and everything is fine.
why can't he do the same for someone who kills himself?
and wasn't suicide the destiny god had in mind for this person? does god fail himself every time someone kills himself?

I think it is a perm. solution to a temp. problem..

check the video i posted a few pages back. it's not always like that. ;)

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 4:35pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,704 posts

God doesn't like suicide. Suicide is an express train ticket to hell.

No...denouncing the holy spirit/God is an express ticket to hell...everything else has a chance of forgiveness

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 5:18pm

rayoflight3

rayoflight3

435 posts

Is it ever acceptable?
Is it cowardice or a cry for help?
Some cultures accepted it as something of honor (namely the Japanese military in WWII). Others condemned it (namely the ancient Spartans).
Share your thoughts and opinions here.

I wouldn't call it "acceptable," but a person can do whatever the **** he wants with himself. Obviously, if he's suicidal, I'd try to quell his anxiety or whatever and make sure he doesn't do anything rash, but in the end, it's his decision.

No, I don't think it's cowardice. The threat of suicide could implicitly be a cry for help, but I wouldn't say an actual attempt is. You can't really get help if you're going to die.

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 6:20pm

Sonatavarius

Sonatavarius

1,344 posts

I don't agree with the "it's ultimately their decision" comment.  That's a little too absolute for me.  There are different mental states people can be in... some characteristic of their normal personality and some are transient (ie. drunk, depression, etc)  current states.  I'm not saying that I'd stop everyone absolutely, but that I would take each case on a case to case basis.  I can't fathom a viable scenario where I'd let someone kill themselves ( I struggle with assisted suicide for patients who are degenerating and writhing in permanent incapacitating pain).  Philosophical possibility is not realistic probability.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I don't think I've heard of any legitimate (or otherwise) instance where someone who his just perfectly fine and not depressed (or what have you) who just up and said... "lala la la la... I think I'm going to kill myself today"  I'm sure someone somewhere has done it before, but I'm going to exclude that scenario from the ones I'm discussing.

  I go to parties from time to time, but I don't drink.  I'm usually the dd or just a people watcher.  I have friends that would never do sober what they consider doing drunk (and sometimes end up doing... right there in the middle of everyone).  Well... at least the humiliation and disgust on their face that shows up after they're told what they did seems sincere.  Some people have argued before that alcohol doesn't change people's personalities or what they'll do.  Everyone has the potential to respond to things like that differently and what you're saying isn't always true.  According to some, I'd be in the wrong to stop an inebriated close friend from doing something stupid when I know they wouldn't do it while not drunk. 

The only people I've known that have killed themselves or performed self mutilation have had problems with depression and other such issues.  If I see someone about to kill themselves, I'm going to assume that they're going to do something they wouldn't normally do outside of their assumed depression/problems and I am going to stop them.  I believe that the fact different drugs like acutane come with the warning label of "it can potentially alter your brain chemistry and make you depressed to the point of committing suicide" shows that depression can be (and in my experience usually is) a temporary/transient brain state that can lead to severely harmful decisions on the depressed person's part that they wouldn't otherwise decide to do. 

I has a mental game I'd like to plays... so here it is.  What about the idea of indoctrination of said suicidal person into not killing themselves? Maybe that's not the right word, but the idea is pretty much the same.  You stop a suicidal person and then you convince them by either logic or somehow forcibly reconstructing the person's thought processes into not wanting to kill themselves.  Some say that breaking someone down and making them believe what you want them to so as to further your own agendas is absolutely bad... but what would you who would have let them kill themselves do then?  Would you change their new opinions and ideas back to the old?  Would you "fix" them so as to let them kill themselves?  ...or would you just say that it's ultimately their decision and that their new decision (indoctrinated or not) just happens to be relatively better...but it matters not to you whether or not they actually kill themselves?

If someone is rewired to think differently, then is their new opinion and agenda just as acceptable to you as the last one you were all "well... it's their decision?"  Is it bad to rewire someone to value their life more so as to keep them from killing themselves?

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 6:59pm

xerox

xerox

316 posts

Suicide.

More people suicide every day.

The last thing that remained in the Pandora's Box is hope.

Does that means that little by little this hope is fading? And soon there will be no hope? Is that why more people chose to suicide? Because they don't have hope?

I know this is kinda strange, but might be true? Who knows....  Is it a suicide that you know you gonna die and you do nothing about it? When you jump off a building you know you gonna die, but you still jump.  You are gone be executed but you do nothing to save yourself, you still sit on the electrical chair on your own free will. But then everyone say this is not a suicide.

Suicide is that you know you are gonna die, but you accept it anyway and let it go.

 

Posted Oct 27, '12 at 8:41pm

Sonatavarius

Sonatavarius

1,344 posts

That definition allows for things other than purposefully taking your own life.  I don't like it.  I don't think accepting fate and waiting on it are the same thing as taking a gun and blowing your brains out.... it's actually pretty much the opposite of the classical interpretation of suicide.  Accepting your fate when there is no way of escaping it and facing it is different from seeing your fate coming at you and shooting yourself before it happens.  I'm sure we can flesh out some grey areas like what you've shown, but struggling against your bindings gets you shot.  It would just depend on the semantics of your decisions.   I don't like reducing all things of a certain type down to obscure similarities and then arguing that everything be treated the same.  Someone who is enduring horrendous incapacitating pain from terminal illnesses wishing to cease treatments like dialysis, life support, etc aren't the same as 15 kids that get all "ERMAGERD!!! THE INTERNETS IS MEANS... IMMA KILL MUHSEF!!!!"

You can't always express everything in a forum post, and b/c of that people will flaunt dumb holes in arguments where certain things were just supposed to be understood.  When I acted like I would stop absolutely everyone, I was expressing it along the lines of seeing a person outside of a hospital type / healthcare type issue who had no apparent reason to kill themselves trying to kill themselves.  As per knowing the intimate details of the situation and then having time to decide on what I'm going to do I'd take everything case to case and not make an all encompassing statement about stopping everyone... even tho I might just effectively do that.  As per the health thing where someone is dying in the next few days regardless, but wishes to remove the machines that would take them that far... I might just let them.  I don't necessarily see that as cowardice.  Cowardice depends on the semantics behind the decisions... Extending life b/c you're afraid of potential oblivion can be cowardice.  Embracing death once your life is ending or effectively over doesn't have to be considered cowardice.

 
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