ForumsWEPRSame-Sex Marriage

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MisterArb
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MisterArb
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Foreword
I'm mainly making this thread because the same-sex marriage thread on the forum I frequent is getting boring to be honest, with all but a couple posters advocating same-sex marriage. I didn't see a thread on this on the last 5 pages or so (and couldn't help but notice the spam of religious threads. Honestly, you guys can't keep the stupid religious arguments to just one or two threads?), so I decided to make a new thread rather than bump an older one. I'm looking forward to see how the AG community views the issue of same-sex marriage, especially since this forum seems to be filled with more, uh, "immature" users than what I'm used to dealing with. And as you can tell by my lack of posts, I'm new to the AG forums, so if I commit some faux pas here, be sure to point it out to me. Until then, I'm just going to assume that the forums here operate like most others I frequent.

Background
The LGBT (which stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender for any who doesn't know and is too lazy to use google) community has long had troubles with gaining acceptance within most religious communities, especially Christianity, which generally dominates many facets of society here in America, including the concept of "marriage". Social Liberals on this issue believe that (legal, not religious) marriage should be available to all couples, same-sex or heterosexual, and it goes against the constitution to deny same-sex couples this right. Meanwhile, social conservatives argue that the LGBT community are "deviants" who do not deserve "special" rights, such as the ability to have same-sex marriages recognized by the state. They sometimes say that the LGBT community are pushing their "agenda" on society, especially youth, and laws need to be passed that prevents them from achieving equa-*cough*, sorry, special rights.
Up until the last decade, there had been little progress as far as achieving same-sex marriages go, and all of the efforts to raise awareness seemed to just cause states to specifically ban same-sex marriage in their constitutions. But, recently there has been relatively huge steps toward equality in marriage, with several states starting to hand out marriage licenses to same-sex couples and many more allowing "civil unions" (basically the same-sex marriage equivalent to the separate but equal doctrine). But still, married same-sex couples are denied many benefits that other married couples enjoy due to the "Defense of Marriage Act" passed by Congress in 1996. The Defense of Marriage Act also allows states to not recognize same-sex marriages done in other states.

Questions
(brotip: the "why" parts are just as important as the question itself. Just posting your side of the issue without giving any arguments is practically useless)

1. Do you believe same-sex couples should be allowed to marry? Why or why not?
2. Do you believe Christianity should influence our country's laws when regarding same-sex marriage? Why or why not?
3. Should the federal government repeal the Defense of Marriage Act? Why or why not?
4. Should the federal government enact a law that forces the legality of same-sex marriages? Why or why not?
5. Do you believe allowing same-sex couples to marry will somehow endanger society in some way? Why or why not?

That seems to be enough to get this topic rolling. Looking forward to your replies.

  • 100 Replies
Kasic
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Kasic
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Heterosexuals have no right that homosexuals don't.


Except, of course, the right to get married. /sarcasm.

Rather, heterosexual couples have a right homosexual couples don't.


And Homosexual does not equal women only. I agree that feminists may have an interest in it, but it is not "solely" a feminist issue. Are we both in agreement?

First of all, dictionary.com is a terrible dictionary in general


It works most of the time. I wouldn't use it for a paper or anything like that.

you do understand that a single dictionary entry is not the complete summary of any complex philosophical idea, right?


I did give two different definitions :P. And of course no definition is going to sum up the entire ideals of something.
zakyman
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zakyman
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But it doesn't matter what their sexuality is. Heterosexuals have no right that homosexuals don't. The law does not acknowledge sexuality.


I suggest you Google the Defense Of Marriage Act. It basically says that other states don't have to recognize your maritial status if you are a homosexual and were married in a different state.
MisterArb
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MisterArb
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[Quote=Xzeno]Gay marriage is not a gay rights issue. It has nothing to do with marriage rights for homosexuals vs. heterosexuals. The law does not discriminate. Sexuality has no effect on one's ability to be married in a legal sense.[/quote]

This is no more than a pointless argument about semantics. Try not to derail the thread with a definition, okay?

A few. Don't infantilize us... It gives us an indignant sense of superiority.


So you can say with certainty that if I had not defined a few terms, everyone in the forum would know what I'm talking about? Anywho, I'm not going to waste more time arguing about my supposed superiority complex, imagined or otherwise.

[Quote]Well, you won't get debates here. Not a one. AG is not a debate forum. The WERP section neither endorses nor facilitates debate these days. Polemic arguments, yes./[quote]

Oh look! More pointless arguments about semantics from you! I think I'm seeing a pattern...

Anyways, for all the people saying the majority of people in America are against same-sex marriage:
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/vqf79nrpfewws7ibh-1u-q.gif
MisterArb
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MisterArb
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Hm, seems I broke some quotes.

I guess you guys are just going to have to deal with it, seeing as the AG forums don't allow post editing for some strange reason.

zakyman
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zakyman
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I guess you guys are just going to have to deal with it, seeing as the AG forums don't allow post editing for some strange reason.


Again, you attempt to act superior to us. Do you look at the top of your post-box? You will see all the things you need.
MisterArb
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MisterArb
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I wasn't trying to act superior, just pointing out a fact.

And yes, I see the format buttons above the &quotost-box". I'm not sure where my quotes went wrong, as I can't look at my post in a manner that let's me see original formatting.

But surely there are other (more relevant) things to post about than perceived superiority complexes?

frisko12
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frisko12
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The bible condemns sodimites(quiers,gays,***ets,etc.)in Gen 12.

zakyman
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zakyman
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The bible condemns sodimites(quiers,gays,***ets,etc.)in Gen 12.


That's nice. So, are you going to listen to the Bible, or are you going to bend to the will and the modern thought of society?


Geez, now I'M sounding like an atheist.
MisterArb
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MisterArb
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Oh no, not an atheist!

Anywho, since we're talking about legal marriage here, and there's this ******* "Separation of Church and State" thing in the United States constitution, religious concepts, including the bible, is largely irrelevant.

dair5
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dair5
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I think the main problem with that graph is that it is the general poll for people in the U.S. So most people will agree in some states but in others there will be a large amount who will disagree. And gay marriage is legalized state by state. So it doesn't matter if everyone in newyork, and califonia, and other states accept it, because the states who don't like it won't change it until enough people in those states do something about it. We would probably have a good chance if it was a law passes through the whole country. Because according to the graph we have over half the people on our side. And its growing every year.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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I think the main problem with that graph is that it is the general poll for people in the U.S. So most people will agree in some states but in others there will be a large amount who will disagree.


Keep in mind he was trying to point out the overall demographic in America.

And gay marriage is legalized state by state. So it doesn't matter if everyone in newyork, and califonia, and other states accept it, because the states who don't like it won't change it until enough people in those states do something about it. We would probably have a good chance if it was a law passes through the whole country. Because according to the graph we have over half the people on our side. And its growing every year.


This touches on question #4 of the OP.
dair5
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dair5
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Keep in mind he was trying to point out the overall demographic in America.


I know. It's for the general population. Which is why in some places people are more okay with it, and in other places people are less okay with it. It averages out that way.

This touches on question #4 of the OP.


I had trouble understanding that so I skipped it. >.< okay..

#4.

And gay marriage is legalized state by state. So it doesn't matter if everyone in newyork, and califonia, and other states accept it, because the states who don't like it won't change it until enough people in those states do something about it. We would probably have a good chance if it was a law passes through the whole country. Because according to the graph we have over half the people on our side. And its growing every year.
Kasic
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Kasic
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I had trouble understanding that so I skipped it. >.< okay..
#4


Just google it, gives you pretty much all you need to know about it if you read what comes up.

As time passes people will change their views and accept it. We've seen it before with slavery and women's rights, eventually the large amounts of uninformed/instilled bigots dies down as their children take a less severe form of it and after a few generations it is no longer a problem.
dair5
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dair5
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As time passes people will change their views and accept it. We've seen it before with slavery and women's rights, eventually the large amounts of uninformed/instilled bigots dies down as their children take a less severe form of it and after a few generations it is no longer a problem.


Will this eventually stop? Or will we become more and more free and accepting of people? Too much of anything is a bad thing after all. Will this slow down at gay rights, or will it only speed up? Sorry, I got a little off topic, I tried to connect it back at the end.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Will this eventually stop?


Do you mean the more accepting over time thing? Eventually it will be a thought of the past like slavery pretty much is now. We know about it, and know that pretty much everyone accepted slavery back then, but now very few people are really racist (There are exceptions)

Or will we become more and more free and accepting of people?


Well based on previous rights movements I think it only goes for that one topic.

Will this slow down at gay rights, or will it only speed up?


I'm not really sure what it would spread to.
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