ForumsWEPR[necro] Is homosexuality right or wrong?

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toemas
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toemas
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I think homosexuality is totally wrong and unnatural, what do you think?

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Avorne
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Avorne
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Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else.

Not true - if you look across the countries of the Western world then you'll see how patchy the rights of homosexuals are. That's without even getting started on places like Iran and Saudi Arabia (countries which, if I'm frank, are disgusting to me).
What homosexuals want is extra rights that most heterosexuals do not need or want.

How so? You squirt out this crap without giving any examples.
Homosexuals through legal action stifle free speech by changing the acceptability of certain words, promoting other words such as "GAY" (a word which is now a derogatory word for anything).

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here - I've never seen a case of homosexuals stifling free speech. I've seen examples of bigoted homophobes being sued for using derogatory terms though.
Through intimidation, threats & violence, the homosexual community now has more power than ever before.

I think you'll find that the homosexual community isn't fighting for power but rather equality - and they haven't used violence or intimidation to reach that equality but rather marches and well-reasoned arguments on the political stage.
Homosexuals will not be happy until homosexuals rule the world (which will never happen).

-yawn- Lies, lies, lies - that's all you're spouting.

Homosexuals are very big, tough & aggressive in the western world but have no guts to do anything to help their kin in places like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Y'know why? Because these countries are full of militant islamists who don't approach the issues with reasoning or acceptance but with stones and sharp knives.

I have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all.

Rights of homosexuals don't help you but they certainly don't hinder you either.

Selfish, arrogant, destructive & self centered is the nature of the homosexual.

Nope - more lies and slander. That's all you're pumping out.

Forty years ago, most homosexuals were happy not to get bashed or locked up for their deeds. Homosexuals today want more, much more.

They want what they're entitled to - EQUALITY.

First comes marriage, then children, then the conversion of all heterosexuals to homosexuality.
In many ways Homosexualism is similiar to Nazism. It's just a few angry guys & girls who want change(the consequences come when they get into power).

A. I see nothing wrong with homosexual marriage or homosexuals adopting children or having them through surrogacy B. Slippery slope argument C. How far up your own *** is your head shoved? Because I'd consult a proctologist about getting it removed.
The heterophobia by homosexuals is despicable, nasty & nation destroying.

I've never met a heterophobic person in my life but I've met plenty of homophobic ones - like you.
The heterophobes will not be pleased until every single hetero freedom fighter is silenced, subservient & submissive to the homosexual community.

More lies and slander - seriously, did your pastor/imam tell you to spout all this crap? Because it sounds like you've been brainwashed.

I also find it rather amusing that every instance of the word 'homosexual' in your argument can easily be replaced by 'Muslim', 'feminist' or 'ginger-haired person'.
freethinkercro
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freethinkercro
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Lol@
Avorne.
Just the type of response I was expecting, Ignorant, hate filled personal attacks. Pushing your own wheel barrow.

"seriously, did your pastor/imam tell you to spout all this crap? Because it sounds like you've been brainwashed."

I am a freethinker and my opinions come from science, logic & reason.

Typical homosexual stereotype behaviour to try & stereotype my behaviour.

If you can not understand my previous post or know the facts I have to backup my arguments then google some of the things i have written with an "open mind".

I will not do you you the service, I have better things to do then an educate a small minded bigot such as yourself.

Thankyou.

Avorne
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Avorne
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You're the one accusing me of being bigoted while you yourself seem to be pushing a completely anti-homosexual agenda - and if you're going to push forward such an agenda then at least have the common decency to try and back up what you're saying.

Also, I'm not homosexual, nor am I heterosexual - so don't try and group me in with either side.

freethinkercro
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freethinkercro
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Honestly@
Avorne , It's a very complicated situation( homosexual rights). A few hundred words in a blog post "don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world".

We as a people do not live in a vacuum. We all like to think, talk & yell about " OUR RIGHTS", but responsibilities & consequences are much less mentioned.

To talk about denial of homosexual rights in a country where homosexuals can parade down any street, poking fun at all and sundry is ridiculous when homosexuals are HUNG in the streets of other United Nation countries.
It is important that we think of our neighbours (other United Nations countries) as well as ourselves.
It is easy to ridicule Christians as they "turn the other cheek" but how to deal with the Mohammedists who are the largest religious (group of people) in world (amongst others)?

Homosexuality is not only frowned upon in Christianity, but also in Islam as well as in Indian & Chinese philosophy. So it's about 4 billion people or so versus the rest !
How would a homosexual U.S.A president & his/her "Partner" be respected in countries like China, Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, ect,ect,ect. The simple answer is, they wouldn't.

Right now, I am still of fighting age & I have a child that will be of fighting age soon enough. Would i go to fight in other countries for homosexual rights? NO, would I want my child to go fight in other countries for homosexual rights? NO. Would you???? Maybe??? you are sitting on the fence, neither homosexual or heterosexual?
History shows, democracy, freedom & power came about because of VIOLENT struggle.

To call homosexuals "gutless" in my previous comment still stands. They have the "guts" to attack others in countries where they have equal rights but no "guts" to stop homosexuals being hanged in others.

Again I have to ask,,,,,,,,,,,

"I have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all."

Why should I vote or argue for extra homosexual rights ?? what's in it for me???

NOTHING!!!! The pro-homosexual movement does absolutely nothing to benefit my life, only cause me more headaches & worries as "they" expect me to defend them , here & around the world.

I say to homosexuals "get a real job !"

Avorne
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Avorne
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Again - all you're doing is spouting unfounded and unbacked rhetoric. The countries that you keep talking about all have terribly poor records when it comes to enforcing basic human rights. Tell me, are you in support of the rights of women? That they shouldn't be treated like property and should have freedoms and the right to vote? Why, if you're not a women, should you care about and support those things? Because it's only basic sense that women and men are the same and deserve the same set of rights as one another - and the same applies in terms of supporting the rights of homosexuals and ensuring equality. Again, ensuring that homosexuals are equal to you doesn't have a single adverse effect on your life, so why shouldn't you support it?

Moe
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Moe
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It's a very complicated situation( homosexual rights)


Not really, there are a bunch of morons who think their rights should be limited and then there is everyone else who thinks they are humans.

How would a homosexual U.S.A president & his/her "Partner" be respected in countries like China, Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, ect,ect,ect. The simple answer is, they wouldn't.


Totally immaterial when none of those countries have the power to do anything about it.

"I have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all."


We could deny your ability to get married and all the benefits that provides or we could show you the hate many homosexuals get, then maybe you wouldn't say such things.
freethinkercro
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freethinkercro
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Thankyou MOE, Perfect stereotypical responses,

"Not really, there are a bunch of morons who think their rights should be limited and then there is everyone else who thinks they are humans."

4 billion or so MORONS(personal insults, intimidation), the vast majority. Who said homosexuals are not human? Certainly not me.

"Totally immaterial when none of those countries have the power to do anything about it."

I mentioned at least 3 countries with nuclear weapons, I suppose you can just send the marines in? Are you going to go fight? or just another keyboard warrior?

"We could deny your ability to get married and all the benefits that provides or we could show you the hate many homosexuals get, then maybe you wouldn't say such things."

Oh, so Homosexuals can now take away my rights(universal rights) which go back 1,000's of years? Are you in power already?

Do you think "homophobes" should be sent to "special camps" for "re-education"?

Heterosexual or Homosexual, Men &/or Women have the right to marry somebody from the opposite sex. It's equal rights for both sexes. Same for you, same for me.

As for the hate, It's easy to see the homosexual hate for heterosexuals. Its called HETEROPHOBIA.

Once again, I urge all homosexuals to have some courage to go & talk to some real Homophobes in places like Iran,

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Homosexuals

"4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building"

Over 100+ homosexuals being killed per year(on average) in Iran yet the concern of the average Western Homosexual seems to be gay marriage in their own little paradise?

Do you remember me saying "Selfish, self-centered" ?

Shame on you.

Avorne
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Avorne
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If you look back 1000's of years, which is apparently the time period from which your rights stem, you'll also see that homosexuals had the same rights - it's only due to Christianity and the oppression that it brought that homosexuals had their rights taken away.

Except that homosexuals don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex, so it isn't the same rights, is it?

While you're urging that - I urge you to go to a gay pride parade and tell everyone your views on homosexuals. Heck, you don't even need to do that, come here and tell me them in person.

freethinkercro
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freethinkercro
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"If you look back 1000's of years, which is apparently the time period from which your rights stem, you'll also see that homosexuals had the same rights - it's only due to Christianity and the oppression that it brought that homosexuals had their rights taken away."

Totally wrong,

What about Gay Marriage under Jews?
Gay Marriage under Egytian Pharaohs?
Gay Marriage In Rome ( Pre-Christian)?
Gay Marriage in Islam ?
Gay Marriage in India?
Gay marriage in China?

Gay Marriage has never been accepted by the mainstream.
Homosexuals have always existed, often amongst Royalty & people in power but to blame Christianity specifically for oppression or taking rights away is uninformed.

Except that homosexuals don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex, so it isn't the same rights, is it?

If you don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex than you don't have to. I'm not married, never have been, never planning on doing it. I don't see a reason to go have a parade to celebrate it.

The whole if two people love each other argument is so short sighted. Next comes "mom wants to marry adult son" headline, "brother & sister in true love, marry each other Vegas Style" "big brother brother marries little brother", ect, ect.

The same arguments used to defend homosexual marriage can also be used to defend incestous marriage.

Going by history incestous relationships were common in the past as well. That's the path the West is heading down.

Homosexuality was decriminalized in Western Countries as a humanitarian gesture. Homosexuals at the time were often quoted as being opposed to gay marriage(it wasn't even in their wildest dreams). Ask some older 60-70 year old homosexuals.

While you're urging that - I urge you to go to a gay pride parade and tell everyone your views on homosexuals. Heck, you don't even need to do that, come here and tell me them in person.

Like I said before, "homosexuals are using intimidation & violence to get what they want".

Avorne
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Avorne
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Totally wrong,

What about Gay Marriage under Jews?
Gay Marriage under Egytian Pharaohs?
Gay Marriage In Rome ( Pre-Christian)?
Gay Marriage in Islam ?
Gay Marriage in India?
Gay marriage in China?

Gay Marriage has never been accepted by the mainstream.
Homosexuals have always existed, often amongst Royalty & people in power but to blame Christianity specifically for oppression or taking rights away is uninformed.


O rly?

If you don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex than you don't have to. I'm not married, never have been, never planning on doing it. I don't see a reason to go have a parade to celebrate it.

So, if you don't have to marry someone of the opposite sex, then what's so wrong about marrying someone of the same sex? How does it affect you in any way, shape or form? It doesn't - it doesn't effect any heterosexual in any way whatsoever.

The whole if two people love each other argument is so short sighted. Next comes "mom wants to marry adult son" headline, "brother & sister in true love, marry each other Vegas Style" "big brother brother marries little brother", ect, ect.

The same arguments used to defend homosexual marriage can also be used to defend incestous marriage.

Going by history incestous relationships were common in the past as well. That's the path the West is heading down.


Slippery slope/thin end of the wedge fallacy - just because we legalize and give equal rights to gays, doesn't mean we then have to proceed to do so for incestuous relationships as well, that's not to mention that homosexuality isn't really comparable to incest.

Like I said before, "homosexuals are using intimidation & violence to get what they want".


Oh no, my point was that if you went there then you'd see that homosexuals don't need to use violence or intimidation, because they could shoot down most of the bullcrap you're spouting just as easily as I can - whereas countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia have to use violence and intimidation to make sure that people don't question or rise up against them.
dair5
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dair5
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Gay Marriage has never been accepted by the mainstream.


Someone left out Sparta...

If you don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex than you don't have to. I'm not married, never have been, never planning on doing it. I don't see a reason to go have a parade to celebrate it.


They can't marry the person they love.

The whole if two people love each other argument is so short sighted. Next comes "mom wants to marry adult son" headline, "brother & sister in true love, marry each other Vegas Style" "big brother brother marries little brother", ect, ect.


We don't allow these because we feel like they can all lead to the harm of someone, like having a child that will be mentally disabled, or abuse of a minor. Can you give me a way that homosexual marriage hurts people?

Like I said before, "homosexuals are using intimidation & violence to get what they want".


"Run! Quick, to the basement! The homosexuals are coming! We're all going to die!"

That's all that comes to my mind when you say that. Can you please explain what you mean when you say that they use intimidation & violence? Because I can't think of one example where that has happened.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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[quote]Like I said before, "homosexuals are using intimidation & violence to get what they want".


That's all that comes to my mind when you say that. Can you please explain what you mean when you say that they use intimidation & violence? Because I can't think of one example where that has happened.[/quote]

This is how it will happen.

http://i43.tinypic.com/x7gqo.png
Image from TheOatmeal.com
Moe
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Moe
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4 billion or so MORONS(personal insults, intimidation), the vast majority. Who said homosexuals are not human? Certainly not me.


Everyone who says they don't deserve the same rights as everyone else is saying they aren't human.

I mentioned at least 3 countries with nuclear weapons, I suppose you can just send the marines in? Are you going to go fight? or just another keyboard warrior?


No one is going to use nukes unless they want to destroy the whole planet. What you fail to realize is there is no country that could do anything about the US having a homosexual president. They can not like it all they want, there is nothing they can do about it. It has nothing to do with the US attacking anyone.

Oh, so Homosexuals can now take away my rights(universal rights) which go back 1,000's of years? Are you in power already?


THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE RIGHTS IN MANY PLACES. You are saying they don't deserve the rights YOU already have. They are often insulted and bullied simply for being different, if any of that was happening to you I can guarantee you would want the rights you should already have.

Do you think "homophobes" should be sent to "special camps" for "re-education"?


Them, along with racists and others like them, need to learn to deal with the fact that everyone is human and deserves the same rights.

Heterosexual or Homosexual, Men &/or Women have the right to marry somebody from the opposite sex. It's equal rights for both sexes. Same for you, same for me.


That doesn't help people who don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex.

As for the hate, It's easy to see the homosexual hate for heterosexuals. Its called HETEROPHOBIA.


Its actually called homophobia, you know the people who constantly bash homosexuals.

Once again, I urge all homosexuals to have some courage to go & talk to some real Homophobes in places like Iran


Thats suicidal, luckily Iran is busily isolating itself and creating more and more enemies. Other than that I have seen homosexuals confront homophobes over their actions, it was quite hilarious because there is no defense for homophobia.

Over 100+ homosexuals being killed per year(on average) in Iran yet the concern of the average Western Homosexual seems to be gay marriage in their own little paradise?

Do you remember me saying "Selfish, self-centered" ?

Shame on you.


Why should it be our job to fix other countries problems? We have our own to fix.

Totally wrong,
Gay Marriage has never been accepted by the mainstream.


Ancient Rome and Greece both had mainstream homosexuality.

Homosexuals have always existed, often amongst Royalty & people in power but to blame Christianity specifically for oppression or taking rights away is uninformed.


Only outside of historically Christian countries. They are totally to blame everywhere where they are the majority, or if you go back to the dark ages.

If you don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex than you don't have to. I'm not married, never have been, never planning on doing it. I don't see a reason to go have a parade to celebrate it.


There are legal benefits to being married, those benefits can't be obtained in a real way by homosexuals. They don't want to marry the opposite sex, they want to marry someone from their own sex.

The whole if two people love each other argument is so short sighted. Next comes "mom wants to marry adult son" headline, "brother & sister in true love, marry each other Vegas Style" "big brother brother marries little brother", ect, ect.


Incest is dangerous to humans, it cause birth defects that only get worse over time.

The same arguments used to defend homosexual marriage can also be used to defend incestous marriage.


No, they can't. Incestuous marriage would actually lead to problems.

Going by history incestous relationships were common in the past as well. That's the path the West is heading down.


You have no evidence that gay marriage leads to incestuous marriage. You are just saying that to make your argument seem real, but in the end it just makes it look that much more pathetic.

Ask some older 60-70 year old homosexuals.


You mean like some of the first couples to get married in places homosexual marriage is legalized?

Like I said before, "homosexuals are using intimidation & violence to get what they want".


They are using more peaceful tactics that what is being used against them to get what they should already have.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Homosexuals at the time were often quoted as being opposed to gay marriage(it wasn't even in their wildest dreams). Ask some older 60-70 year old homosexuals.

You mean just like the women some short time ago who didn't want the right to vote because 'a woman has no political opinion'?

Before you use such things as arguments, please consider the time set and the reason why exactly those people didn't want homosexual marriage. Without proper reasoning this argument is void.

Todays homosexuals want the right to marry, they're humans as we are, entitled to the rights we have, rights who don't infringe on each other, so why refuse it to them?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else.
What homosexuals want is extra rights that most heterosexuals do not need or want.


Heterosexuals have the right to marry the person they love. Homosexuals do not.

Homosexuals through legal action stifle free speech by changing the acceptability of certain words, promoting other words such as "GAY" (a word which is now a derogatory word for anything).


Yeah like those brown people with a certain word starting with N.

Homosexuals will not be happy until homosexuals rule the world (which will never happen).


They want the ability to marry who they love. It has nothing to do with world domination any more then African Americans wanting to be free and equal was about world domination.

Homosexuals are very big, tough & aggressive in the western world but have no guts to do anything to help their kin in places like Iran or Saudi Arabia.


You could say the same for women. There are a number of political and sociological changes that would first have to take place before this subject can even be touched. Not just in the areas you mentioned but in the western world.

I have yet to hear from any homosexual how their "rights" help me as a heterosexual at all.


That's a rather self centered argument. Why would it have to be about how it helps heterosexuals?
The notion of equality is a benefit to everyone regardless of sexual orientation.
The inclusion of gay marriage effects alimony laws making them more fair fro men, again regardless of sexual orientation.
Marriage is good for the economy. Allowing an extra 10% or so of the population to marry would be a benefit on the whole population of the country in that respect.

Forty years ago, most homosexuals were happy not to get bashed or locked up for their deeds.


Just like how women were happy to stay at home instead of go out and work or blacks were fine being slaves.

Homosexuals today want more, much more.


The right marry who they love, the right to adopt... despicable!

First comes marriage, then children, then the conversion of all heterosexuals to homosexuality.
In many ways Homosexualism is similiar to Nazism.


Nice slippery slop fallacy you got there. You know those homosexuals are like zombies, just one bite or scratch and you catch the gay.
Giving homosexuals the rights they want isn't going to lead to everyone being gay, especially when you consider why someone is gay or straight to begin with.

The heterophobia by homosexuals is despicable, nasty & nation destroying.
The heterophobes will not be pleased until every single hetero freedom fighter is silenced, subservient & submissive to the homosexual community.


What? Hetero freedom fighter? Are you a troll?

Watch the personal attacks & abuse roll in against me if this comment does not get deleted.


I doubt your post will get deleted, but if you spout bigoted views what do you expect?

Through intimidation, threats & violence, the homosexual community now has more power than ever before.

Homosexuals & the acceptance of homosexuality make the western world a laughing stock amongst the new rising powers of the world.

Selfish, arrogant, destructive & self centered is the nature of the homosexual.


I would like you to cite sources su7pporting these comments.

I am a freethinker and my opinions come from science, logic & reason.


I have yet to see you use anything resembling anything close to science, logic and reason. I do see you using fear, illogical assertion and fallacies.

Typical homosexual stereotype behaviour to try & stereotype my behaviour.


Your behavior is very stereotypical of the claim.

To talk about denial of homosexual rights in a country where homosexuals can parade down any street, poking fun at all and sundry is ridiculous when homosexuals are HUNG in the streets of other United Nation countries.


The point of the pride parades is to have recognize their existence int he world. Not to poke fun.

Homosexuality is not only frowned upon in Christianity, but also in Islam as well as in Indian & Chinese philosophy. So it's about 4 billion people or so versus the rest !


This sounds like an appeal to majority, another fallacy.

To call homosexuals "gutless" in my previous comment still stands. They have the "guts" to attack others in countries where they have equal rights but no "guts" to stop homosexuals being hanged in others.


Again not able to marry who they love.

Gay Marriage under Egytian Pharaohs?


Very little is know on the subject in ancient Egypt and what we do have is regarded as speculation.

Gay Marriage In Rome ( Pre-Christian)?


Pre-Christian Rome was accepting of homosexuality and did include gay marriage. However such a marriage held no legal standing.

Gay marriage in China?


Gay marriage did exist in ancient China. Elaborate binding contracts were used in the Ming Dynasty and domestic partnerships where held during the Zhou Dynasty.

Gay Marriage has never been accepted by the mainstream.


It's legally accepted in Canada, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Iceland, Argentina, Portugal,South Africa and the Netherlands (who were the first to legalizes it in the modern age.)

Homosexuals have always existed, often amongst Royalty & people in power but to blame Christianity specifically for oppression or taking rights away is uninformed.


While it is true Christianity is not the only religious group, they have played a large roll in the oppression.

Except that homosexuals don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex, so it isn't the same rights, is it?


They want to marry the person they love, just as heterosexual people can.

Going by history incestous relationships were common in the past as well. That's the path the West is heading down.


Yet again another slippery slope fallacy.
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