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is abortion ok?

Posted Nov 7, '12 at 4:16pm

danielo

danielo

1,365 posts

Team abortion, i thinks it became "Hit hte pro" threan, not a discuasine anymore. We dont argue wiht a person, we explaine ourselfe over and over. I almost belive that people open users just to fight us.

ill say, copyyour argument and past them when someone say 'murder'. I can swear that you kasic explained that over 5 times to 5 diffrunte peoples.

 

Posted Nov 7, '12 at 7:27pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,667 posts

Knight

ill say, copyyour argument and past them when someone say 'murder'. I can swear that you kasic explained that over 5 times to 5 diffrunte peoples.

Like I said if I get the time i will make something up that we can use for just that.

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 2:36am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,667 posts

Knight

This is what you get when abortions are illegal.
Woman dies after being denied abortion in Irish hospital

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 11:35am

Masterforger

Masterforger

1,633 posts

Reasons that abortion should not be banned:
1. The woman MAY choose to have one, it's not like "**** it, I'm pregnant, need to get rid of the baby" Getting an abortion is a hard choice.

2. Occasionally, the developing baby poses a threat to the mother. Remember in those historical tales, the kid lives but the mother dies during childbirth? Abortion stops that unnecessary loss. This is why abortion was developed in the first place.

3. Babies have huge financial impacts, only those who have the time and the money and the capacity should go through with having a kid.

4. Abortion is the failsafe of contraception, condoms and the like should have been used beforehand, it's not like willingly having unprotected sex and then saying that you don't want the baby after all.

5. Abortion is not a MUST DO WHEN YOU ARE PREGNANT. It's by choice.

6. Following on number 5, IT IS THE WOMAN'S CHOICE. I am not  saying women as a whole can decide whether it's okay, I'm saying it is THE PREGNANT WOMAN'S CHOICE. Anyone saying otherwise is denying the basic rights of a human.

Now, from now on, unless you're some kind of millionaire with tons of resources that you're willing to give to a pregnant woman who wants to abort, I kindly suggest you stop making the same, easily crushed, stupid, ill-thought-out arguments against abortion.

Thank you for reading.

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 5:32pm

VonHeisenbourg

VonHeisenbourg

215 posts

Notice unlawful. Abortion is legal, thus it is not murder.

A better phrasing of what he meant to say would have been: "homicidal killing," instead of murder.

You're only right Kaisic that this is not murder, if you're going by the semantics of the word "murder," (which you are).

The immensely large probability of this fetus turning into a man or woman is so extravagantly large that many people do consider human fetuses in a womb humans. I agree with that sentiment, but however for my own reasons I do think that abortion is right.

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't right to consider fetuses as non-humans  .

I'm not going to waste my time going through how a fetus younger than ~7-13 weeks is not a fully developed person, nor how it should be the would-be mother's right to choose what happens in her body.

That's akin to saying that when seniors, or men or young adults or anyone for that matter enters into a vegetative state, becomes senile, or when their mind ceases to function to a "human" degree that the government has the right to kill these people, because it is the governments land after all, they should get to choose what happens on their land right? Especially in relation to brain dead veggies (that isn't meant to be offensive, just the best phrasing I could find) that are no longer fully developed humans.

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 5:35pm

VonHeisenbourg

VonHeisenbourg

215 posts

Where's that edit button when I need it?

Those two last statements were meant to be flipped. Kaisic said: "I'm not going to waste my time going through how a fetus younger than ~7-13 weeks is not a fully developed person, nor how it should be the would-be mother's right to choose what happens in her body."and I responded with the misquoted text at the bottom...

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 6:56pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,566 posts

A better phrasing of what he meant to say would have been: "homicidal killing," instead of murder.

That statement was pretty much a summary of previous discussion on the topic.

The immensely large probability of this fetus turning into a man or woman is so extravagantly large that many people do consider human fetuses in a womb humans.

Not so immensely and extravagantly large actually. Refer back to page 41 and Hahiha's post near the bottom.

"Only 30 to 50% of conceptions progress past the first trimester. The vast majority of those that do not progress are lost before the woman is aware of the conception,[12] and many pregnancies are lost before medical practitioners have the ability to detect the presence of an embryo. Between 15% and 30% of known pregnancies end in clinically apparent miscarriage, depending upon the age and health of the pregnant woman."

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't right to consider fetuses as non-humans

It's not that they are non-human, it's that they are potential humans. Going back again to what has previously been said, if all the materials for a sky scraper are being put together, is it a sky scraper even though it's not finished? No, but it isn't not a sky scraper either, it's one in the making.

That's akin to saying that when seniors, or men or young adults or anyone for that matter enters into a vegetative state, becomes senile, or when their mind ceases to function to a "human" degree that the government has the right to kill these people

The difference being that these people are already fully developed and have formed connections with other people.

that are no longer fully developed humans.

But they are. They were just damaged. A fetus was never developed enough to physically -have- brainwaves before 7 weeks, a person who's already been alive for (presumably) 20+ years is in a much different situation.

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 7:30pm

VonHeisenbourg

VonHeisenbourg

215 posts

That statement was pretty much a summary of previous discussion on the topic.

I said that because I thought that you had seemed intent on saying abortion was alright because it wasn't murder.

Not so immensely and extravagantly large actually. Refer back to page 41 and Hahiha's post near the bottom.

His link and source to that is wikipedia. That wikipedia pages source and link is another wikipedia page.

I don't really credit that as a reliable source.

It's not that they are non-human, it's that they are potential humans. Going back again to what has previously been said, if all the materials for a sky scraper are being put together, is it a sky scraper even though it's not finished? No, but it isn't not a sky scraper either, it's one in the making.

The difference is that the fetus is alive, and the sky scraper parts aren't alive. It isn't as though the fetus were cut up into a 1000 different pieces and it was completely dead.

The difference being that these people are already fully developed and have formed connections with other people.

What if this vegetative person was friendless, and family-less and no one liked him or her, would it then be okay to kill him since he is no more alive than a fetus, and all his connections were negative?

But they are. They were just damaged. A fetus was never developed enough to physically -have- brainwaves before 7 weeks, a person who's already been alive for (presumably) 20+ years is in a much different situation.

Saying they're still humans because they had previously developed into human beings is like saying a human skeleton is a human, because it had (but no longer has) developed human emotions. This is a flawed thought.

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 7:42pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,566 posts

I said that because I thought that you had seemed intent on saying abortion was alright because it wasn't murder.

Nope, that's just a part of it.

I don't really credit that as a reliable source

Website

I don't really want to go looking for a good source, but here's something that isn't wikipedia.

The difference is that the fetus is alive, and the sky scraper parts aren't alive.

Why does no one understand what an analogy is supposed to do?

What if this vegetative person was friendless, and family-less and no one liked him or her, would it then be okay to kill him since he is no more alive than a fetus, and all his connections were negative?

Pretty sure in that case, they would wonder who this person was, find that no one was willing to pay for the medical bills, and if they didn't wake up within a certain time period they'd let them off life support.

is like saying a human skeleton is a human,

It was, anyways.

Take note of the name of which you are talking about. Human skeleton. We don't simply say skeleton :P

 

Posted Nov 15, '12 at 8:06pm

VonHeisenbourg

VonHeisenbourg

215 posts

Miscarriage is the most common type of pregnancy loss, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Studies reveal that anywhere from 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage.

When the chances of a successful pregnancy are 9/10 at the highest, or 75% at the lowest, I'd say that is still a pretty large chance of the fetus turning into a human, making it that the high likelihood of the fetus turning into a person are large enough to consider it a person...

Why does no one understand what an analogy is supposed to do?

Why does no one understand not to use such vague and poor analogies where the differences are to large, and the similarities to small?

Pretty sure in that case, they would wonder who this person was, find that no one was willing to pay for the medical bills, and if they didn't wake up within a certain time period they'd let them off life support.

I'll rephrase this and ask my question again: "do you think it would be RIGHT to kill a veggie who is brain dead because no one likes him or her and they're a small nuisance (on the grand scale of things) to society?

It was, anyways.

Take note of the name of which you are talking about. Human skeleton. We don't simply say skeleton

Ah, so you consider a human skeleton a human and a person? You would walk up to a human skeleton and say "what's up?"

You consider anything that was a human and developed a connection with people humans?

I find that to be slightly flawed, if you consider a brain dead veggie a person, you should consider a fetus a person. I don't think that to be a person you must have had, had connections or relationships with other humans.

 
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