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is abortion ok?

Posted Dec 12, '12 at 8:38pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,676 posts

Knight

Well I got about 30 minutes to kill.

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/yddoor2.png

The resulting death was due to septicemia made worse and spreading to the mother due to not receiving the abortion. Legally this is partly true that the laws on the books could have allowed for Savita to receive an abortion in this case, but it should also be noted that interpretation on a case by case basis of this sort left the Hospital unsure of acting. So in the end the law did play a role in her death.

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/yddoor4.png

Already noted above on the role the law played. This no request for termination sounds like a flat out lie to me.

The mention of the X case and how it opens the door to abortion in all nine month is misleading. This case seems to apply in cases where it would cost the mother her life to try and carry to term.

As for the UK statistics this gives.
This 200,000 abortions, this is a bit of an exaggeration, but rounding up it's not too far off. 2012 the numbers were around 189.5 thousand. 2007's numbers were 198,500 and 2006 was 193,700.

99% for social reasons. It would be more accurate to put scare quotes on the term social reasons. 98% of abortions in the UK are done under Ground C.

"Ground C is often referred to as ‘the mental health clause’, and is perceived as the way in which doctors certify abortion ‘on request’, or ‘social abortions’. It is certainly the case that, despite the lack of a formal right to abortion in England and Wales, the abortion law is interpreted liberally to enable women to access abortion when they need it.

However, the construction of the British abortion law still presents a problem for women and doctors. It is not the case that the majority of women seeking abortion are necessarily at risk of damaging their mental health if they continue their pregnancy. But it is significant that, because of the law, women and their doctors have to indicate that this is the case.

It is also important to bear in mind that because Ground C is the most common legal ground for abortion, doctors may be likely to cite it in circumstances where other grounds might be more applicable. For example, if a diagnosis of fetal anomaly is made at a gestation of under 24 weeks, a woman or her doctors may feel more comfortable certifying a termination under the more common Ground C, rather than the Ground E clause.

In general, the national statistics do not, and cannot, reflect the real reasons why abortions are considered necessary. They can only reflect the grounds that are cited to make them lawful." -abortionreview.org

Abortions conducted up to 6 month for any reason I can't seem to fin any info suggesting this. Most abortions are carried out under 13 weeks gestation. With many of those being under the 10 week mark.

The left for dead part again can't find where thy are getting this from. While there are cases of such a thing happening in later term abortions actual statistics can be hard to come by. So my guess is they just used a number that sounded good here.

20% of unborn babies killed from abortion, this might be a real number but the wording is intended to make it sound horrific, ignoring any of the situations behind it. It's basically an emotional plea.

30% repeats, this number is actually higher at 32% of women indicating that had a previous abortion. The wording they use would seem to try and suggest these women are doing this constantly, while it could just be a second time.

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/yddoor5.png

Abortion never being medically necessary is an out right lie.

The 90% number is about right for cases where Down's Syndrome is detected. Of course this is indicating that the parents should be forced to have to deal with a child with severe mental problems for the rest of their life.

12 women dieing from abortion. If that is all there was in 2009 his is a pretty good record and a far improvement from the past. 2007 had 370 reported cases of complications. That's 2 out of every 1000 done. Overall this would seem to be worded to function as a scare tactic.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 1:31am

theEPICgameKING

theEPICgameKING

458 posts

Let's bring up a different slice of abortion pie.
Sexual Responsibility vs. freedom, and the Constitution
The basic gist of the US constitution is that you are allowed to do whatever you want as long as you dont interfere with the choices/actions of others and negatively impact them. Any act of oppression is therefore a crime; why do you think they abolished slavery? Cause the blacks were having their choices and actions oppressed!
Now let's tie this to abortion. By forcing pro-life, you are depriving women of a choice. Some argue that an abortion infringes upon the life rights of the unborn. But that unborn fetus can't talk, can barely think, can barely respond whatsoever. Go ahead and try to communicate with an unborn child. Nothing. I consider life to start when you're able to communicate, weather in baby goo goo ga ga's or what. Until then, no.
Therefore, I believe that until birth, or at least until the brain is developed enough, a fetus is only half-living like a virus. So it's not murder, in my eyes.
Even so, abortions are delicate procedures. Instead of getting pregnant and then having an abortion, women should avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's less resistance, and easier. Just use protection or just hold off on doing the nasty until you're sure you want to have a baby. THEN go ahead.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 1:53am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,676 posts

Knight

Even so, abortions are delicate procedures. Instead of getting pregnant and then having an abortion, women should avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's less resistance, and easier. Just use protection or just hold off on doing the nasty until you're sure you want to have a baby. THEN go ahead.

The problem here arises when those who are against abortion are also against any form of comprehensive sex education.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 11:41am

Masterforger

Masterforger

1,633 posts

The problem here arises when those who are against abortion are also against any form of comprehensive sex education.

Paradox, V2.

Is it so hard to bow to the idea that is completely, utterly, entirely up to the WOMAN?! No one has any right to infringe on choice, as Epic said!

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 11:56am

nichodemus

nichodemus

12,018 posts

Knight

You must understand how people come from, how they are brought up. The cultures vary, for example if you grow up in a Roman Catholic family, even contraceptives are frowned upon. At the risk of gross generalization, devout Catholics are brought up to believe in the complete sanctity of life, which leads to their strict viewpoints.  Is it wrong? To us yes. To them no.

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 3:52pm

theEPICgameKING

theEPICgameKING

458 posts

Ignorance on any matter is in my opinion wrong. I personally am a scientific man, and heartily believe in reason and method, as well as just knowing lots of stuff. Therefore, I endorse comprehensive sex ed. Knowing is growing!

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 4:04pm

wontgetmycatnip

wontgetmycatnip

95 posts

Is it so hard to bow to the idea that is completely, utterly, entirely up to the WOMAN?! No one has any right to infringe on choice, as Epic said!

So, what if the father wants the child, but the mother doesn't? Does the mother still have the right to get an abortion?

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 4:51pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,572 posts

But that unborn fetus can't talk, can barely think, can barely respond whatsoever...Nothing. I consider life to start when you're able to communicate...So it's not murder, in my eyes.

By your argument here...severely mentally retarded people that are unable to communicate are in the same category. So, by your argument, killing them would not be murder

 

Posted Dec 13, '12 at 5:39pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,097 posts

So, what if the father wants the child, but the mother doesn't? Does the mother still have the right to get an abortion?

ofcourse.
it's about the womans body. not the mans body.
if the man wants a child so badly then he needs to seek for a girl that want a child and not force a girl to have a child.

but this barely ever happens.
it toke me years to find a nice caring girl that does not want to have a child.
i think atleast 95% of the woman do want a child sometime in their life.
it's more often that the woman want the child but the man doesn't.
then they break up and those nasty stories about father left us befor you were born come to light.

 

Posted Dec 15, '12 at 9:38am

Nerdsoft

Nerdsoft

1,009 posts

I believe it is. Foetuses (not a misspelling, just the way Brits spell it) are unconscious. And there are people who get *****, and they should certainly have a right. Besides, if people really want one, they'll go into a dark alley and get it ripped out of them with dirty tools under drug-store grade painkillers. Under PARACETAMOL! Surely it's better to do it in a hospital, with spotless tools, safely asleep and unmoving? Surely? And here I quote:

Is it so hard to bow to the idea that is completely, utterly, entirely up to the WOMAN?! No one has any right to infringe on choice, as Epic said!

 
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