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is abortion ok?

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 12:48am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,667 posts

Knight

This I must disagree with. Your logic is not flawed, however, preventing the sperm from fertilizing the egg is very different. This is considered birth control while abortion is considered termination, very different.  Terminating a child in the womb is like crushing a chicken egg [that is planned to hatch into a chick] before it hatches. also, abortion has a vastly different psychological on the mother (and sometimes the father but more-so the mother) than simply avoiding pregnancy.

I don't den that there are some differences. Yes each stage will carry different levels of baggage to the people involved. Though keep in mind I was speaking of it's impact on the potential for the development to become a person. As I said "in that regard" it's not really much different.

However, when she willingly puts herself at risk to get pregnant, that is when it is wrong.

If someone willingly eats raw unprocessed food, knowing the risk of contracting a parasite and does, it must be wrong for them to rid their body of that parasite. Because they must live with the consequences of their actions.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 1:34am

GhostOfMetal

GhostOfMetal

597 posts

If someone willingly eats raw unprocessed food, knowing the risk of contracting a parasite and does, it must be wrong for them to rid their body of that parasite. Because they must live with the consequences of their actions.

A parasite causes bodily harm via infect. However, pregnancy, while it does, in a sense, cause bodily harm, it is a natural process. If she doesn't want the baby, she can put the baby up for adoption for someone who does want it. the experience and trauma from it, will likely keep her from having another baby she doesn't want. (wow, I'm making this sound like torches. I only mean it as a "I made a mistake and learned from it" from the woman's perspective).

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 1:49am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,971 posts

I'm not saying abortion isn't the wrong thing to do when it is the result of **** or when the mother's life is in danger. By all means, it is the mother's right to life and pursuit of happiness to abort the child then. However, when she willingly puts herself at risk to get pregnant, that is when it is wrong.

Why is a fetus that results from **** devalued to the point where terminaton is "not wrong"? Isn't it still just as innocent as one from consented copulation?

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 2:13am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,971 posts

"I made a mistake and learned from it"

Imagine if she said that to the child. "Gosh, you were horrible and painful enough. I never want another one. Run along now, little accident. Go to the adoption center. I don't ever want to see you again. Someone else can bear that burden."

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 2:38am

HahiHa

HahiHa

4,942 posts

Knight

Parasitic infections are natural processes too, they occur all the time. I don't see a logic behind that argument. Besides, as mentioned, abortion is just changing the odds of a natural process, nothing else.

And 9 months of pregnancy is still just too much to inflict on a woman that does not want it, simply out of punishment. You can't sugarcoat this horrible idea.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 2:44am

GhostOfMetal

GhostOfMetal

597 posts

Why is a fetus that results from **** devalued to the point where terminaton is "not wrong"? Isn't it still just as innocent as one from consented copulation?

A child of **** can be a walking talking reminder for the individual of the trauma. This can give emotional instability and cause chronic depression which can lead a number of very bad directions.

As far as her speaking to the child about being a mistake, if she gave him or her up, she would never say it to them because it wouldn't be there.

This whole topic has reminded me, I used to be a firm pro-choice. but it will always be a debate between the child's life and the woman's rights and I guess I've always been between the two sides. My opinion are changing even in the day. The idea of the woman choosing not to have a child is not a bad thing. I just think she should go about an alternate method of doing it.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 3:45am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,971 posts

A child of **** can be a walking talking reminder for the individual of the trauma.

Based on your model of 'teaching a lesson', a child of pregnancy coertion can be a walking talking reminder for the individual of the trauma. No real difference.

What did the fetus specifically do to deserve death? It's still treating it as a means to an end instead of an end in itself. Unless you're saying a fetus has no intrinsic value, your argument doesn't stand. And if you are saying that, then abortion isn't wrong in any case.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 3:54am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

4,971 posts

A child of **** can be a walking talking reminder for the individual of the trauma.

And if she gives it up to adoption, it's not there anymore. Again, equal to a regular unwanted one.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 10:32am

HahiHa

HahiHa

4,942 posts

Knight

A child of **** can be a walking talking reminder for the individual of the trauma. This can give emotional instability and cause chronic depression which can lead a number of very bad directions.

Ah, because NOW you care about the mother. Funny how the way a baby is conceived can totally swap your opinions about the topic. A baby born from **** is still a baby. If you argue against abortion because of the loss of potential life, you should argue all the same in case of ****. No difference.

 

Posted Mar 3, '13 at 4:35pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,667 posts

Knight

A parasite causes bodily harm via infect. However, pregnancy, while it does, in a sense, cause bodily harm, it is a natural process.

The way the body reacts to the parasite is a natural reaction.

If she doesn't want the baby, she can put the baby up for adoption for someone who does want it.

Which ignores the point that the woman is being forced to go through the physical ramifications of being pregnant when it's very much preventable.

I will also paste what I have already said on women not having abortions.

"Asking a woman to carry to term is asking that she risk her own life in the process. From 95-2000 one fifth of all maternal deaths (700,000) were the result of unintended pregnancy.

in the US there are about 1,370,000 abortions a year. 2008 statistics had 24 out of every 100,000 births result in the mothers death. 2004 report had an infant mortality rate of 679 per 100,000. (without abortion we could likely expect that number to be higher)

But for the sake of argument let's use those numbers. That would mean without abortion we would have about 329 women die when it could have been avoided. About 9,302 of those children that would have been aborted would die anyway during birth. That would mean about 28 of those women "taking responsibility" would die along with the child they are trying to give birth to. When instead they could have prevented it in the first place."

Another thing to keep in mind is the cost. With out abortion and just adoption, we would be increasing the number of unwanted children going into the adoption agency by the millions. Adoption services as is are already over burdened. The end result would be a burden to the tax payers and countless children living poor quality lives. and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the finial issues involved tot he community as a whole.

Finally making abortion illegal would only bring back back ally abortions. This would mean just putting the mother in far greater danger than she would have been in if she were allowed to have the operation done legally.

But apparently the mother's life is of no value compared to that of an nonthinking, likely unfeeling fetus that might develop into a person and will likely given the odds be a burden to society as a whole.

 
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