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is abortion ok?

Posted Feb 5, '14 at 11:52pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,798 posts

Knight

The most logical thing to do is view it as a part of the mother's body, not a separate entity, as it has no characteristics of a separate entity, and only has the potential to become a separate entity.


I do agree with every other point you made but there is one characteristic that the developing fetus has that would distinguish I as a separate entity. That is it has it's own unique DNA. Though that really isn't saying all that much as we can find loads of different DNA in a person that isn't them but we could still in some way think of it as part of them.

Having an abortion is not the most pleasant of experiences.


So I can tell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Ud3g2ymOM
 

Posted Feb 7, '14 at 7:49pm

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

Just use your brain for a second, mate. The topic at that time was pregnant rape victims. You made an unsubstantiated claim that abortion is more damaging than the pregnancy. I asked for clarification, which you have still not provided.


What exactly do you mean by clarification? Because facts and rational logic speak for themselves when it comes to this issue. It's pretty much being pro/against life, and if you ask me, being pro-life is usually the right choice.

Because women so look forward to the grueling, hours long trial of pushing the baby out that they don't at all insinuate they think it's the most painful experience.


Let's make a deal. If you tell that to your mother, I'll tell it to mine.

So I can tell.


I'm not even going to bother.
 

Posted Feb 7, '14 at 8:36pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,798 posts

Knight

Because facts and rational logic speak for themselves when it comes to this issue. It's pretty much being pro/against life, and if you ask me, being pro-life is usually the right choice.


No it's really not. It's about the sort of life we are speaking of. egg, sperm, zygote, fetus... It's all life, abortion is just stopping the process of that life becoming a sentient, sapient individual.

I'm not even going to bother.


Why not? It shows someone getting an abortion as they speak to the camera about what it's like for them at that moment. That would seem rather relevant to your claim that it is a "most unpleasant experience".
 

Posted Feb 7, '14 at 9:52pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

What exactly do you mean by clarification?

Just give a link to that "study" you mentioned. That's all.
 

Posted Feb 8, '14 at 2:28am

OperationNilo

OperationNilo

4,066 posts

Why not? It shows someone getting an abortion as they speak to the camera about what it's like for them at that moment. That would seem rather relevant to your claim that it is a "most unpleasant experience".


It is...in the long term.

No it's really not. It's about the sort of life we are speaking of. egg, sperm, zygote, fetus... It's all life, abortion is just stopping the process of that life becoming a sentient, sapient individual.


What are you trying to do with this statement?

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that with pro-life I meant that, protecting the defenseless "sentient, sapient individual", also known as a human being.

Just give a link to that "study" you mentioned. That's all.


I don't recall mentioning a study. Nevertheless.

I wonder what your reply will be.
 

Posted Feb 8, '14 at 3:30am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

10,103 posts

I don't recall mentioning a study. Nevertheless.

I wonder what your reply will be.


All the different links mention that said effects differ between women, if any at all.

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that with pro-life I meant that, protecting the defenseless "sentient, sapient individual", also known as a human being.


A being, which at moment of abortion, is not what you described (spare defenseless).
 

Posted Feb 8, '14 at 3:38am

Pazx

Pazx

6,123 posts

Having an abortion is not the most pleasant of experiences.


Imagine going through the pain of childbirth... for a child you do not even want.
 

Posted Feb 8, '14 at 4:04am

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

I don't recall mentioning a study.

I meant specifically wherever the hell you pulled "The majority of the cases confirm that the mother is more severely impacted by having an abortion rather than delivering the child" from. That's a specific claim. I was expecting some sort of research (like this or this), not a personal opinion.

Nevertheless.

Counterpoint.
 

Posted Feb 8, '14 at 4:44am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,798 posts

Knight

It is...in the long term.


Do you mean the psychological impact? While I'm sure there are cases such as what the links in EmperorPalpatine's show, I would like to offer a counter from the origination those websites are citing to give a less bias review than that of a pro-life website which would likely be cherry picking for results.

"The best scientific evidence published indicates that among adult women who have an unplanned pregnancy the relative risk of mental health problems is no greater if they have a single elective first-trimester abortion than if they deliver that pregnancy. The evidence regarding the relative mental health risks associated with multiple abortions is more equivocal. Positive associations observed between multiple abortions and poorer mental health may be linked to co-occurring risks that predispose a woman to both multiple unwanted pregnancies and mental health problems.

The few published studies that examined womenâs responses following an induced abortion due to fetal abnormality suggest that terminating a wanted pregnancy late in pregnancy due to fetal abnormality appears to be associated with negative psychological reactions equivalent to those experienced by women who miscarry a wanted pregnancy or who experience
a stillbirth or death of a newborn, but less than those who deliver a child with life-threatening abnormalities.

The differing patterns of psychological experiences observed among women who terminate an unplanned pregnancy versus those who terminate a planned and wanted pregnancy highlight the importance of taking pregnancy intendedness and wantedness into account when seeking to understand psychological reactions to abortion.

None of the literature reviewed adequately addressed the prevalence of mental health problems among women in the United States who have had an abortion. In general, however, the prevalence of mental health problems observed among women in the United States who had a single, legal, first-trimester abortion for nontherapeutic reasons was consistent with normative rates of comparable mental health problems in the general population of women in the United States.

Nonetheless, it is clear that some women do experience sadness, grief, and feelings of loss following termination of a pregnancy, and some experience clinically significant disorders, including depression and anxiety. However, the TFMHA reviewed no evidence sufficient to support the claim that an observed association between abortion history and mental health was caused by the abortion per se, as opposed to other factors."
http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/

If you mean the impact from late term abortions, these are not very common and are often done due to a risk factors to the mother or the developing child becomes no longer viable. Either case one would have to forfeit the claim to being for life as we are then speaking of situation where a life will be lost regardless of outcome and to allow the pregnancy to continue could result in the loss of both mother and child.

Speaking of which even with things going well there is a certain risk factor to the mother's life to carry to term. I have to wonder just how pro-life it is to ask that of someone?

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that with pro-life I meant that, protecting the defenseless "sentient, sapient individual", also known as a human being.


Which doesn't exist yet, it's a life that has the potential to become that. The abortion is done BEFORE it becomes a sentient, sapient individual.
 

Posted Apr 7, '14 at 11:23pm

bluesky4us

bluesky4us

31 posts

in the united states establishment clause.
"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion''

abortions should be a basic human right and it already is in some places.

my philosophy is a woman should decide on religious grounds to decide or not to have in abortion.

one of the things the constitution is designed to regulate is theocracy.
which is one of the things that is the most oppressive form of political structures in existence when you vote pro life you vote authoritarian and anty humanitarian.

this should be the end of the discussion.

 
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