ForumsWEPRis abortion ok?

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toemas
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toemas
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Is abortion ok? I donât think so. The babies that these people are killing is wrong, some people say that itâs not a person that itâs a bag of cells or a fetus and not really human being I have to disagree

Please debate

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HahiHa
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HahiHa
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You obviously don't love anything so strongly that everything that opposes it you hate.

That is called fanatism, and is a bad thing. Try a bit more tolerance, it will do you good.

In the meantime, keep things on-topic. You wanna discuss abortion, do so here. You wanna talk about your faith, do so somewhere else.
KnightDeclan
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I'm discussing faith because, if you read in earlier comments, nobody finds abortion wrong. I'm saying that it's murder, which is a sin, and you will go to hell for it if not confessed to a real priest. This world is so disgusting.

Kasic
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God, being so just, doesn't give it pain in limbo, but there is no happiness. It's just a place of no family. When the child reaches the age to know right from wrong, (about 7) he will go to hell. Retarded kids will also go to limbo, for they lack reason and willpower.


Again, how is this even remotely fair? How could a loving god sentence unborn people to limbo (and then hell) all because someone didn't dump water on their head? How can he call himself just by denying mentally ill people paradise, because he created them as being mentally ill?

I have to oppose anyone who doubts even one aspect of it.


Arguing your side is fine, however, you are not arguing it. You aren't even responding to the aspects we're talking about, you just keep repeating yourself.

Also, don't downgrade Baptism as something so simple please. That is an attack on my faith.


Baptism is simple. A priest says some words and pours water over someone's head. It takes less than a minute.

You obviously don't know any of us if you are so surprised from our beliefs.


There certainly are not very many people who hold your beliefs as far as I'm aware. Could you give us links to websites on your faith?

lastly, even if you were baptized, you still have a good chance of going to hell because of your lack of faith, and your herecies.


"Good chance." In other words, God really only does mostly care about water being dumped over someone's head, if that alone qualifies me.

I'm predicting your ignorant comment, as usual, so just save your time and forget it.


I'm wondering if you know what ignorant means.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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I'm saying that it's murder, which is a sin, and you will go to hell for it if not confessed to a real priest.

1. What are your arguments on why it is murder?

2. A woman (adult) died in Ireland because she couldn't have her doomed foetus (brainless thing) aborted. For me, that is involuntary manslaughter, which is legally amendable.
Kasic
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Kasic
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's their child, so they should love it enough to let it be saved. If they don't care about their own child, then God doesn't. He's completely fair and just.


I don't even know how to respond to this. You think it's completely fair and just for a supposedly all loving being to let innocent children suffer in hell eternally or go into limbo because their parents did not have their child baptized? What if they never heard of it? What if they held some other form of faith about God?

Also, I think I'm listening and responding to every one off your points.


"Up to the first seven weeks, a fetus does not have a heartbeat. Up to the first 12-13 weeks, a baby does not have brainwaves. No one thinks or feels before their brain starts working."

" However, the fetus/baby grows inside the mother, and as it is her body, it is her right to choose whether she wants to let that. There are also times when either the mother, child, or both are in danger from the pregnancy. Should I get into rape and child pregnancies, too?"

"f people do not want to reproduce, they should use birth control."

"Because all the murderers of the world, all the people who scam others or steal, rape people or destroy other's property did great things with their lives. A fetus would not have automatically been a saint, just because it was aborted."

"Why would an all loving god require a ritual where you pour water over someone's head, in order for them to enter paradise? How does that add up?"

"The bible is not proof of Christianity's claims. The bible is where Christianity's claims come from. Here.

I am a purple unicorn. Obviously, I'm a purple unicorn, because I just said I was. That's your logic with saying the bible is proof of itself."

"Please explain the difference between a baby being conceived after a human ritual, or prior. What's wrong with premarital sex anyways?"

"What we are saying is, it's the most sensible thing to do in certain situations, and prohibiting it does make everything worse. Example? Since Switzerland allowed abortions, abortion rates went down substantially."

"Again, how is this even remotely fair? How could a loving god sentence unborn people to limbo (and then hell) all because someone didn't dump water on their head? How can he call himself just by denying mentally ill people paradise, because he created them as being mentally ill?"

These are all the points you have not responded to. Aka, 95% of what we've said. All you've done every time you responded is,

1) Some form of this: "Ur a sick person"
2) Some form of this: "As kasic, the twisted, heartless, moron is saying"
3) Some form of this: "Since you are all going to hell"
4) Some form of this: "I hope to God you go to the lowest part of hell"
5) Some form of this: "my faith is being attacked."
6) Some form of this: "'I'm predicting your ignorant comment,"
7) This: "complete facts put out by the church"

In other words, all you do is play the victim card while insulting us over and over again, while repeating yourself that you're right and we're wrong and that we're going to hell. The only question you have -finally- answered is what you think someone who has only been baptized will have happen to them.
Kasic
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Lol, i have to admit, that is funny about my response, but i have said more than that.


No, you really haven't. Not in any threads. You never back up what you say, you insult us most of the time, you tell us we're going to hell, and you cry victim.

God is just by not sending the baby to hell. It's the parents duty to get it baptized, not His. Is it sad? yes, but our world is just as sick. Unfair? sometimes, but that's how it is.


The only sick thing here is that a supposedly all loving, all powerful, all knowing god requires mortal, fallible people whom he knowingly created as such to perform a ridiculous rite so that innocent unborn children who die in any way are not outright condemned to eternity of being alone or tortured.

Most of all, preventing it's eternal happiness.


The only one doing that is God, by mandating his abhorrent and disgusting system be followed. He could let any and everyone in and forgive them and wash them of their sins regardless of what they've done, by way of being omnipowerful and benevolent. He is a cruel, evil, hypocritical being who toys with sentient creatures he created and punishes them for being how he made them. There is absolutely nothing good about God as you portray him.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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I'm saying that it's murder, which is a sin


Please read Numbers 5:21-22, then get back to us.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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So abortion is just fine if it's done ritually?

Kasic
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Kasic
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As I said, God can do as He likes with us.


The fundamentals have become clear.

We're all God's slaves whom he can torture because he's righteous. That makes a whole lot of sense.

Seriously? KnightDeclan, take a look at that for a second. Do you see any kind of contradiction between calling yourself all loving, and then turning right around and torturing people for eternity because of frankly stupid or meaningless transgressions?
Kasic
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Kasic
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I love God alone. I am a sinner, because i hate everyone who's not Catholic. Don't try comparing God to us. He tests us throughout our lives, but you are all to stupid to realize that.


Translation:

NAANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANNA *plugs ears and screams* I LOVE GOD I LOVE GOD I LOVE GOD NANANANANANANANANANANANAN I CAN'T HEAR YOU I LOVE GOD NANANANANANANANANANANANAN

Sorry, but that's what you're doing. You aren't even arguing on topic anymore, you're just spouting off doctrine.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Since you are all going to hell, because you denied Baptism, I pity you


Except I, like Kasic, was baptized. So..that happened.

When the child reaches the age to know right from wrong, (about 7) he will go to hell


Where did you find that fun number? Does it take into account children/people with mental, emotional, and/or psychological disabilities?

God really only does mostly care about water being dumped over someone's head, if that alone qualifies me


No no, I told you..apologize for everything you do, as well.

nobody finds abortion wrong.


Because there are instances when it can be fully justifiable.

Ignorant means that you ignore what I'm saying.


Ignorant
Adjective
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

because i hate everyone who's not Catholic.


"Judge not, lest ye be judged"
EmperorPalpatine
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because i hate everyone who's not Catholic.

Someone needs to read Matthew 5:43-45.
MageGrayWolf
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NIV

The Bible says the loss of a fetus's life is not serious injury.

Exodus 21:22
"If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,


Not only do we have God commanded murder, some of those women had to have been pregnant at the time. That makes it also God commanded abortion as well.

Numbers 31:15
"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,


God preforms abortions, and in a way so that the woman can no longer have kids. It would seem post birth baby killing is okay as well for God.

Hosea 9:14&16
Give them, LORD-- what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry.

Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring."


Maybe it's only Biblically okay to preform abortions when you kill the mother as well? (or if you're God)

Genesis 38:24
About three months later Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant." Judah said, "Bring her out and have her burned to death!"


Hosea 13:16
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

Reton8
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Exodus 21:22
"If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

Not only do we have God commanded murder, some of those women had to have been pregnant at the time. That makes it also God commanded abortion as well.


Where does the passage say that?
It sounds like, if the prematurely birthed baby is alright, "no serious injury" , the offender is fined and with stipulations as to what "the court allows".
Then it states "if there is serious injury" (which seems likely to the women or the child) that a death penalty is enacted, which would be enforced upon the attacker and not the fetus.

Numbers 31:15
15 âHave you allowed all the women to live?â he asked them. 16 âThey were the ones who followed Balaamâs advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lordâs people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


It seems that indirectly the women being killed would lose the chance at giving birth, but how can one be certain they are pregnant? And also not a direct command for abortion.

Hosea 9:14&16
Give them, LORD-- what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry.

Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.


Reading the entire chapter, it comes across as a punishment for the sins of the people. But it is still preventing, a birth. But,Isn't there a difference if God causes a miscarriage Himself as compared to a human doing it.
(But if someone does not believe, I don't see how the passage would have any bearing on their conscience or thoughts.)

Genesis 38:24
About three months later Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant." Judah said, "Bring her out and have her burned to death!"

Hosea 13:16
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."


I still feel it's not a direct command for abortion. It would seem more like a complete killing of both woman and her fetus. But it is a subtle distinction to make, so I don't know.

But, in all cases quoted, these deeds were being preformed against the will of the women/person and as a form of punishment.

Yet in today's society we are performing abortions not as punishment and on women who usually have the abortions of their own will.

Does that not, according to those passages and if they are about abortion, show abortion to be a bad thing, a form of punishment?
Reton8
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Where does the passage say that?

To clarify, I was asking about the abortion, not the murder.
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