Forums → The Tavern → One Dilly of a Pickle, ain't it?
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INTRODUCTION
Thread Background
Coming from a long-time lurker born in 2008, I have noticed that Armor Games is facing a recent "slump" of activity. In other terms, Armor Games is becoming inactive. In my quest for answers, I've contacted several Armor Games users, ranging from new users to veterans. Thinking that I gave people something to think about for the day, Ernie15 gave me a bold idea to convert these ideas into a thread where one can give his/her ideas on the matter instead of letting this issue be small-talk. In many's minds, this is an issue that needs to be addressed to immediately. There have been threads like this, but this is the central HUB of what we view of Armor Games today.
Armor Games, I give you The User's View.
Armor Games Background
AG3, a major update to the Armor Games world, has been in development for around 2 years. There are tons of beta testers for the website. Prior to and starting at the development of AG3, Armor Games was once a bustling "city," if you will, of ideas traveling by means of public forum posting to comments to one another, or "small talk." Many of these users have left for reasons we will discuss and are being replaced by users we will later discuss.
Staff Changes
Late 2011, Cormyn, a very popular admin, resigned from his duties and became a regular user. He was somewhat replaced with Justin Royster, aka username jroyster22.
Part 1: Cormyn
Cormyn was undoubtedly known for his ability to be publicly active within the community and was often described as strict. As strict as he was, he kept the trash out and helped shape our modern-day Armor Games. He wrote code for the community, laid down a lot of the rules, appointed moderators alongside the moderation team, and, short and sweet, held Armor Games together. In many people's opinions, he was the administrator's community face of Armor Games. Once Cormyn left, jroyster22, alongside his duties with AG3, became the one to contact if you needed help. Justin Royster had big shoes to fill, and so far, he's done a moderate job. He prefers to contact via email, taking away from that on-site communication charm. In my opinion, Justin Royster has been a little vague with his duties. I and others have complained that Armor Games needs a new head, and if Justin Royster was a little more open, we'd have that strong, great leader. I am not criticizing his work- I understand he's busy. I'm just asking that he showed a little more of his face.
Part 2: Inactivity
Sadly, many of Armor Games' moderators have been caught up with daily life to successfully fulfill their duties on a daily basis. Similarly, admins are busy preparing AG3 for its release and have a lot to do. I understand they have lives as well. Many other new members have complained that it is impossible to get in touch with anyone on the staff team. Cormyn had written moderator-selection software, and many are thinking, if it is still available after Cormyn's resignation, perhaps it could be used to find another addition to the moderator team. Freakenstein has been a fantastic addition, but I feel as though we need more. I'm not going to name names because I respect what our moderators do; I feel as though we need more. Maybe it's time we eliminated the "small staff team" tradition for the time being until we recover. As for admins, we don't need a lot, but just one public face to get contact with would be fantastic.
Migration
I know AG3 is going to be very different. I know forum activity has sunk. I know your friends have left. Because of multiple things, many users, newbies and veterans alike, have moved on to different websites. This is not going to help our inactivity problem. It will only make it worse. I am not only asking you all to stay, but I am asking you to help out. We can't sit around and let our users leave. Part of it is our problem; we can make things interesting again. We can make people want to spend all of their time here. We can show people Armor Games is the best darn website out there!
Generation Transition
Jeol brought this to my attention and it struck me. What if the reason so many people are leaving is because they are older? Now, some people will never change, but others will grow and move on. And, who replaces them?
Part 1: Veterans
It's summer. You've finished school and want to enjoy the outdoors. You've finished school and have to work. You've finished school and want to try something new. Whatever it is, whether you've gotten too old for Armor Games, or have something else taking up your time, you can't visit your favorite website in the world. You know what? That's quite OK. Just remember to drop by once in a while and talk to your old friends. Many users are finding that they are having difficulties connecting with new people if they leave right away. Sadly, this leaves many users bored and craving for a good conversation.
Part 2: New Users
The size of Armor Games' user list is rising exponentially- it's skyrocketing! Most would think this would create more activity, wouldn't it? Frankly, no. Many games require an account for online saving to work, and the new generation replacing the previous one seems to be filled with people who join, stay active for a day, and quit dealing with the forums, leaving a large gap to be filled by no one.
Armor Games v3
As mentioned earlier, AG3 is being developed. By my count, there are currently 5 admins developing it. Unfortunately, users are complaining because there is little or no status updates on what's going on. Not to sound demanding, but more frequent updates could make the waiting all the easier. Also, the new achievement system may scare veterans who are used to and have gained recognition by the current AP system. AG3 will also result in a clean slate for the forums... By deleting all of the material there. Of course, much of the material is repeatable, but many veterans have good memories of posting here.
Conclusion
We've lost the face of the admins, Cormyn, and would like to have another public face again. Many moderators are busy with their lives and some more help would be fantastic. A lot of people have given up on Armor Games and have outright quit. Old faces are being replaced with people who aren't as devoted the site. AG3 is coming with big changes, but has gone very quiet recently.
~Salvidian
Those who contributed to this information in some way, shape, or form
-jeol
-Ernie15
-daleks
-Skeleton_Pilot
-Cenere
-GhostOfMatrix
-MrDayCee
-johnmerz
- 339 Replies
What do you think this will do?
More of them will know what's going on within the forums. According to you Joey and Dan already know, but it's good to spread to the word to more of them. I'm not sure about this, but I think Justin was supposed to take over Cormyn's role in the forums.
I'm all for the email. However I don't think you made the link between active moderators and active users clear.
Apart from that (This isn't as important) but I really liked your "Spring cleaning" idea.
The other suggestions in this thread seem to be a bit far fetched so I'd stick to what you have.
It appears that Get Satisfaction is having more support questions then the forums... Should we maybe direct these people here? It could bring a couple of new users to the forums.
Should we maybe direct these people here?
Probably wouldn't work. The reason they go there to ask questions is because you can actually get admin responses. Once they notice that won't happen here they'll go back.
In other news, Tasselfoot became an administrator. I noticed this while browsing the about page a few minutes ago.
It appears that Get Satisfaction is having more support questions then the forums... Should we maybe direct these people here? It could bring a couple of new users to the forums.
I looked through Get Satisfaction a few times. Most people seem to be asking small questions and aren't really there to talk. I don't think anyone would come here and stay here.
In other news, Tasselfoot became an administrator. I noticed this while browsing the about page a few minutes ago.
I don't see what this will accomplish to be honest. It would've been nice for the news to be announced publicly.
Still writing the email, I was busy today. :/
And more...
Hey Justin! Your community members, or us, have noticed that the forums are going through a pretty severe rough patch that they may not recover from. In my thread, One Dilly of a Pickle, ain't it?, many other users and I discussed the current state of the forums. We have found some of the causes for the forum's problems and have found some easily implementable solutions and some not-so-easy implementable solutions that we'd like to share with you.
I'm just going to give you a condensed version of what has been discussed in the thread, so for more detail, please read through it.
The current link to the forums is very small and, frankly, misleading, and we'd like it to be a little smaller than a banner, but surely, bigger than a little link. The term "Community" is misleading. Many users have clicked on the link expecting to go to a page with more links to social media networking sites like Facebook, with other links to other gaming sites, which was something included in AG1. We really need more of a flow of activity coming into the forums, and we've seen other sites include a pop-up window after registration that would bring them to the forums. This sounds easy to do, and would make users more aware of the forums!
We could really use a new community manager like Cormyn and Carlie. What I mean is, we need a community manager who is publicly active and posts in the forums frequently. They also need to be able to lay down the law, be personable, be familiar with AG, and know its people. The community manager could also be a solution for the lack of public knowledge surrounding AG3's current state. We really aren't as informed as we were when we had Cormyn, and we need to be more informed of AG's next big update.
Speaking of staff, most of the mods are, unfortunately, busy with life and aren't able to fulfill their duties. Some mods have been like this for an extremely long time (over an entire year!) and should be de-modded until they are ready to come back, if they can at all. Many new users will try to contact inactive mods, assume they're being ignored, and will quit. One of our biggest problems is the lack of new, quality users to come in and replace the retiring veterans, leaving a humongous gap to be filled by no one.
That was part 1 if you weren't here yesterday, or whatever day I posted that.
Here's some more...
Among our biggest concerns, we need a community manager, a new, attractive link to the forums, some clarification on the staff's part, and some form to let people know we exist here!
These really all result in one thing: more activity. AG's highest priority, aside from AG3, is more activity. The forums are virtually falling apart here! As Cormyn once said, the forums are something that you admins built up and are something to be proud of. I mean, the forums went through one of the greatest golden ages in forum history! We were massive, and everything still managed to hold together. If you, Dan, and the other staff look through what we have to say, I'm sure you'll find we're on the same page with you. We need AG3 to come out, but we need some people to go off on it. We can't just have AG3 released and no one come! You need to help make people get to the forums and want to stay. If you get people to stay with AG's forums, then you get people to stay with your site, resulting in more money. It's undoubtedly a win-win situation if we can cooperate and build upon your ideas.
Why have a small, unseen staff when you can have hundreds of people backing you on the forums? If you can take the time and look through the thread, I'm sure you'll find that we need you!
Thanks for your time.
Email written by Salvidian and approved by (people here)
Ideas from (people who posted here)
---
I might have lost an italic BB code somewhere in there. I have a habit of doing that. If you have input any ideas or even posted here with an idea, I'm going to put your names in the second pair of parentheses.
Probably wouldn't work. The reason they go there to ask questions is because you can actually get admin responses. Once they notice that won't happen here they'll go back.
I guess that's true. Just thought I would suggest.
I looked through Get Satisfaction a few times. Most people seem to be asking small questions and aren't really there to talk. I don't think anyone would come here and stay here.
You never know... If we could get at least one new person. Just a thought, I guess it wasn't the best idea.
A few sentences in the email appear to need some rewording:
the forums went through one of the greatest golden ages in forum history!
Maybe replace with:
"the forums went through their greatest time in forum history"
"the forums went through one of their greatest times in forum history"
Dang... I hit submit by accident.
Rewording:
We need AG3 to come out, but we need some people to go off on it.
This sentence may be hard to understand... "to go off on it" is not really being clear.
The rest of the email all looks good. Hope it does some good, considering all the work you've put into writing it, and all the users who came up with the ideas. Hope it's not a waste.
Email I sent to Justin, concerning the AdBot problem:
Justin,
Hello. I'm Maverick4 (though most call me Mav), and I've been a member of the site for a few years now. Though out that time, I've actively participated in the community, commonly frequenting the Tavern, AMW, Popular Media, and Forum Games. I've enjoyed the site immensely, both the Community and flash games, and want to say thanks to you and the rest of the Administration for all the blood, sweat, and tears that you've put into it.
But on to more serious matters. As I'm sure you're aware, the community has in the past few months been under 'attack' from AdBots posting links to free movie downloads, live sports streaming, and cheap designer clothes sites. And in the past week or so, these AdBots have stepped up their assault upon the Community, and in some sub-forums the amount of spam threads have grown logarithmically as time has progressed. In some sub-forums, namely the Forum Games and Support and Suggestions, the amount of spam threads are at such an astronomical number that Gantic (the moderator rabbit) has been forced to make a sticky so that users can actually give suggestions and receive support.
On Saturday (March 31) I believe, ReCAPTCHA was implemented in an attempt to halt the AdBots, and decrease the amount of spam threads. Simply put, its failed miserably. The amount of AdBots and spam threads has stayed the same, if not grown, along with the number of irate users who have their entire posts deleted when they incorrectly guess what the blob in the box is supposed to be.
As a result of this, numerous threads have popped up here and there, many of them discussing possible solutions ranging from appointing more moderators to blowing up the entire Internet. But one idea has been put forth multiple times, and is starting to gain support amid us users (Tron reference, no?). The idea, in a nut shell, is to prevent new accounts from being created until an effective and permanent solution can be attained. This would allow the AdBots to be banned, the spam threads to be deleted, and would give everyone a chance to breathe, collect themselves, and 'lick their wounds'.
While I'm trying not to sound like a star-struck 'n00b' with dreams of becoming a moderator (I think we all had them at some point), I do think serious consideration should be given to appointing a few more moderators. The recent flood of AdBots and spam threads has proven that the moderation team as it currently is is stretched too thin to effectively deal with the threat. The number of moderators who can be considered 'active' can be counted on one hand, and is in no way helped by the recent retirement of Cenere. As most of the moderators (surprisingly) have lives outside of Armor Games, many of them simply aren't on enough to effective all the time. So the site really needs some more moderators. Now, I both understand and support the reasons for only mod-ifying users above the age of eighteen, but I think something can be said for the maturity and mental stability of several users who are under this age, namely sixteen and seventeen year olds. My experiences in the Community has shown me that many users who are active in the Community and site are in this age group, and while I won't name names (I think its against 'the rules', I can personally vouch that many of them are wonderful people and would be extremely beneficial to have on the team if choosen. If handled properly, making moderators of select individuals in this age group would be beneficial to the site as a whole, both now and in the future.
So I hope you and the rest of the Administrative team will give these, and other, suggestions some serious consideration. And while solving the AdBot problem is neither simple in design or action, I truly believe that implementation of one or both of the above mentioned ideas can really help solve the problem, or at least throw a wrench in the mechanizations of whomever is behind all this.
Best regards,
Mav
Response I received:
Maverick4,
Thank you for tang time to send me a heads up as to what's going on. You are correct, we have known about the issue since last wendesday and are working very hard to come up with the correct solution. As days go on, you should start to see the spambots die down a little. Again, thank you for your input and the time you took to send me this response.
--
Justin Royster
My guess is that you'll get something that thanks you for the time and effort you've put into the email, something about how the forum users are important, and another thanks for your time. None of the ideas you send in will get mentioned at all; You'll notice that both my email and your draft contain a similar complaint about the inactive moderators.
My guess is that you'll get something that thanks you for the time and effort you've put into the email, something about how the forum users are important, and another thanks for your time. None of the ideas you send in will get mentioned at all; You'll notice that both my email and your draft contain a similar complaint about the inactive moderators.
Tell me about it... As for right now, I'm making the administration aware of the problems. Joey and Dan both know, so I figured it's time to tell Justin. If the entire active administration team is aware of the problem, we have a better chance of actually receiving some help.
Actually, last night a thought came to mind; don't necessarily "spam" emails, but one could help by sending their own 2 cents worth to an admin. If they see this as a concern for most of the community, we have a shot at being noticed.
Sending the email today.
and is in no way helped by the recent retirement of Cenere
I wonder if it would have helped more, if I had stayed a mod...
Besides the mental breakdown sometime around the end of May, which would have caused massive havoc, of course.
That would have been cool...
Anyway.
On the topic of "Sent letters, got crap reply", I have sent several rather important emails on various issues and users and issusers and what not, and I think one of the better replies were "Thanks." followed by Justin's signature.
It's standard, I guess.
Or they don't actually read the emails, but because you are a regular user, they have to write up something a bit more polite*. Always better than not getting a goddarned reply.
Actually, last night a thought came to mind; don't necessarily "spam" emails, but one could help by sending their own 2 cents worth to an admin. If they see this as a concern for most of the community, we have a shot at being noticed.
I actually think this is a legit idea. The staff has previously shown to act on something, when they get enough complaints about it, for example removing an otherwise amusing game, because some little thinskins got offended because it was vaguely based on Nazi Germany.
If they are going to make people mad to make a few easily offended people happy, then bringing up their - shortcoming several times might actually make them reconsider. Whether that is reconsider the forums' existence or reconsider their approach, I don't know, but as things are now, perhaps either will show to be an improvement.
That would also free up, what... All the spots on the mod team, because the mods loves the forums, and are probably going to quit if they remove them.
*Though many of the problems did get corrected/banned, but there were slips, there were big slips and I believe I had to report a single user and his alt accounts somewhere up around ten times (that is ten emails) before any of those were acted upon.
But at least they acted.
I decided to be productive and sent an email to Justin regarding the community. I know there's a small chance of something actually getting done, but it can't hurt to try.
I decided to be productive and sent an email to Justin regarding the community. I know there's a small chance of something actually getting done, but it can't hurt to try.
If i were him. i wouldn't really care about the forums either... There is such a small user base here that the amount of attention that he would think we need is slim to none. So that is what we get.
If you look at it from his perspective, why should he help us? He probably has better things to do, like the rest of the site that gets all of the traffic.
I've been offline for a while, so this thread has obviously progressed without me... >_>
So I'll just ask what's been bothering me for quite a while, what, from a user's point of view, is so wrong with expanding the moderation team?
So I'll just ask what's been bothering me for quite a while, what, from a user's point of view, is so wrong with expanding the moderation team?
If there were candidates don't you think they'd be mods already? Yeah, we covered this a few pages back. There are probably not any candidates because of how strict they are with the requirements. According to Cenere they're also paranoid. I'm not surprised either, considering how much bad they could do in so little time.
Thread is locked!