Forums → WEPR → Circumcision banned

Circumcision does no harm to a person, whatsoever. The foreskin is not needed. A person does not feel any less "whole" without it. I do not have a foreskin. I am Jewish. I do not feel like any less of a male without it. I was circumcised when I was 8 days old. I can assure all of you that I do not feel any chronic pain, nor do I remember any pain whatsoever. I challenge all of you to try and remember anything from the first year of your life, much less your first year.

did'nt your parents wrote your religion on birth certificate and/or other documents coming with it.

i can understand what you say. realy. I live in Israel, wher its almost not even a question if to do it or not, and even here there are peoples {jewish} who dont do it because what you said.

but yet, its quite bother me. its a very significent ritual in jewdisem. and everyone who say how horrible it is, sure, it sound horrible 'from the side', but here in Israel, wher {this sound preety creepy} almost no one have foreskin, i dont find this as a blood ritual like some of you think about it.

you cant ask a kid "what you want to belive in?" "which you prefer, god, god and jesus or god + jesus + muhamad". kids belive in what there parents teach them. sure, some change ther mind, some learn new theories, but most stay in the religion in which they grew up.

if i have to compare it to something, its like banning parents from teaching kids about santa clous, until they are old enough to accept the Christian doctrine and its symbles.
i know its sound a little sily {dont thorn my flesh of because of it}, but come on, do you realy see a kid say "i dont know, the things you Taught me since childhood do look true, but i think that..."? as i said, i dont see any kid choose if to do it or not because of Intelligent opinions, only on the 'ain' of the process.
in the age of , he dont feel any pain mostly. the 'speciel' rabbi, "mohel", do it. many peopel do it in hospitals. its not like they do it with meat knife in a center of a field. its clean and Sterile.

what next? banning parents growing a kid in a male or female way, because they might prefer to be the opposite sex? {there are peoples like that who suffer very much because they borned in "another sex body", they feel like a girl when they are boys, or girls who just feel as boys, even they have the entire body of a girl. so im not making fun on them}.

Circumcision is one of the things that keep teh jews togheter. one of the things who kept us as a united group. i am an atheist too. but i am a proude jew. yea, i despise the religius system, but yet i know wher i come from. how many kids in USA have no clues about there ancestors history? there irish, france or kongish history? i know exectly wher i came from.
we are a small group, less that 15m in a world of 7 billions. we survived thanks to these 'rituals'. if the germans try to say 'you have Freedom of worship, but first let your kids to choose if they wwant to belive in what you do [or, maybe, be christian like the rest of germany]". because thats what its all about. trying to let the child to decide if he want to remind a part in a minority, or join the majority. because lets face it, you cant identify a jew. a russian jews look like russians, ethiopean jew look like ethiopean and french jew look like french.

so for summery, as i said, this ban is questioning the place of parents teaching the kids about there culture. and i think its olny a start. like the banning of hijab in france, these are the start of a new 'anti-minority' wave in europe. banning Circumcision is like banning teaching about religion untuil the child is big enoughe to choose for himself.
im not sure if this is Sanctimonious Europeans or a new nationalism wave.

@danielo
Please understand that the actual case in Germany and the examples you stated, like Santa Claus or religious teachings, are not the same in that circumcision is a mutilation of a part of the body, and even though it might not be very dangerous, it still presents certain risks. This is the main difference; a child will not get a bad infection from being told about Santa.

The goal of all this is not to bother the minorities, it also won't lead to more restrictions unless they have a good reason. In this case the good reason was that a child was harmed following the ritual and the one that did it was spoken guilty, which started the debate and resulted to the overly dramatic media echo we know now.

so for summery, as i said, this ban is questioning the place of parents teaching the kids about there culture. and i think its olny a start. like the banning of hijab in france, these are the start of a new 'anti-minority' wave in europe. banning Circumcision is like banning teaching about religion untuil the child is big enoughe to choose for himself.
im not sure if this is Sanctimonious Europeans or a new nationalism wave.

Children are often ill equipped to make such choices.

Who are you to say that? Children can say no and yes just the same as you can say no and yes. Drunk people are often "ill equipped" to make decisions as well but they still make decisions and suffer the consequences, or rewards, whatever the case might be, for them.

bad example, a kid has no prior knowledge in order to make such crucial descisions, while a drunk man has prior knowledge, but chose not to use good judgement. to say that is a gross oversimplification of the actual issue, especially when you consider children as property. if anything, they are more like apprentices, learning and have some say in the matter, but the adult makes the final descision. usually the adult has to make his judgement while taking into account what the child says. that is a better thing to consider them besides things.

Who are you to say that? Children can say no and yes just the same as you can say no and yes.

Drunk people are often "ill equipped" to make decisions as well but they still make decisions and suffer the consequences, or rewards, whatever the case might be, for them.

Circumcision should not be banned, because it is a symbol of a religious covet. That is taking someone's freedom away. And babies don't have a say, you don't get rights until you're 18, at least in America. Circumcision also has health benefits, because the foreskin can actually tear off during intercourse and it also can become infected.

Okay circumcision is often preformed between the first 48 hours to 10 day of birth, so let's ask a child between that age and see what they have to say.

Circumcision should not be banned, because it is a symbol of a religious covet. That is taking someone's freedom away. And babies don't have a say, you don't get rights until you're 18, at least in America. Circumcision also has health benefits, because the foreskin can actually tear off during intercourse and it also can become infected.

This is the main difference; a child will not get a bad infection from being told about Santa.

Children can understand what is right and wrong by two years of age.

That's very good for you. Now read the posts on the second page, especially Mages, to see it's not always like that. The foreskin is not really needed but that does not mean that the operation itself isn't automatically painless.

I was circumcised for medical reasons and my life was no different except for the odd guy thinking I was somehow inferior because I have no foreskin. I can see where they are coming from, it's a practise that is irreversible and out dated but it's not as if you're having your hand chopped off; circumcision is harmless and won't cause anything bad in the future.

In the BBC article it talks about parents choosing but surely it should be the child's choice? What if circumcision is banned and he wants to or, like me, needs to.

Good for Germany! Circumcision is a horrible thing to do to a child. I am sure if I ritually cut of the toe tips of babies, I would be locked up. Why is it any different for foreskins?

The foreskin is not really needed but that does not mean that the operation itself isn't automatically painless.

Ever heard of a little thing called anaesthetics? They relieve all pain during an operation.