Forums → WEPR → The Boy Scouts of America

i think i'd rather not say anything..

The Boy Scouts is a great way for boys to learn survival and outdoor skills. It comes in handy so often in life. For example, the other day i was at camp and a kid fell off the dock and almost drowned, luckily there was a kid there who was in boy scouts and was able to dive down, get him, bring him back up, perform CPR and get him going again.

I really dont care about it that mch because I am not in the "B.S.A" so I really dont care.

bsa is BORING
THE END

@Ricador: See, this is why I'm so conflicted about the Scouts. They teach amazing survival skills that make young men much more productive in society, and those skills have saved lives countless times. Then the Scout take a moral stance that harms the very members of society that are the most cast out. It's a weird dichotomy, for sure.

But it is their right as a private organization to discriminate. Using the argument that restaurants can't deny blacks is not valid as restaurants are public businesses. A private organization, political party, or private group has the right to deny whomever they please. The government or courts cannot force them to accept everyone. Should the KKK be forced to accept blacks? Should a Nazi Party be forced to accept Jews into their ranks? Should an atheist organization be forced to allow Christians in their group? No way. Political parties and private organizations can discriminate all they want.

@thelistman: I think you misunderstand me. I fully agree that private organization are well within their rights to deny membership to anybody for any reason. This is enshrined in the US Constitution for a very good reason.

That doesn't mean this discrimination is always a good thing. I agree with the right to free speech but I don't think we should go around calling people racial slurs. I believe in the right to assembly but I don't think the scouts should exclude gays or atheists.

Hence my enquiry.

SOCIAL ACTIVISM FTW :P

@Strop: petitions are nice and all, but I don't think the Mormons or the Catholics are changing either their stance of homosexuality or their promise to withdraw from scouting if gays are allowed in. Nor do I think that the National Committee of the BSA is going to pay any attention to anything but money. (Cynical, I know). There's an organization called Scouting for All that has been working for at least a decade to change scouts' policy, all to no success. I don't mean to sound defeatist, but just realistic.

I don't even think gays would stay in if they joined. They would be so excluded and discriminated against that they wouldn't even enjoy it. I know, not because I am gay, but because I know people who are and I exclude them from things that I do. It's human nature to make fun of people who are different.

[quote] know, not because I am gay, but because I know people who are and I exclude them from things that I do. It's human nature to make fun of people who are different.

This is the type of prejudice that this post is tring to defeat. Just because it is human nature doesnt make it right. Just because you do it dont assume that is what everybody does.

@Ninjacube: I have to disagree. I had fellow scouts come out to me, and we both cried that we wouldn't be able to share the joys of scouting together anymore. I've had units that resolved not to make mention of a person's sexuality so we wouldn't lose them to a policy. People make fun of minorites and the handicapped too, but it would be equally wrong to exclude them from an organization.

@ kanethebrain:

petitions are nice and all, but I don't think the Mormons or the Catholics are changing either their stance of homosexuality or their promise to withdraw from scouting if gays are allowed in. Nor do I think that the National Committee of the BSA is going to pay any attention to anything but money. (Cynical, I know). There's an organization called Scouting for All that has been working for at least a decade to change scouts' policy, all to no success. I don't mean to sound defeatist, but just realistic.

@kanethebrain

Why should the Boy Scouts not be able to decide who joins their group? It may be morally wrong for them to exclude gays, but it's their right. I'm bisexual and I believe the BSA has every right to deny gays into their organization. I don't see what is wrong with a private organization choosing who to let in their group.

Discrimination is not good at all. But it is a private group's right to discriminate. I believe in the right to freedom of speech so much that I think a private group should be able to discriminate all they want. That doesn't mean we should go around shouting racial slurs, but it does allow private organizations to discriminate all they want.

Now... I think I've used the word &quotrivate" too much.

Is the military a private organisation?

I know we're using private in a legal sense here, and so it is not actually illegal for the BSA to have such policy, but I will challenge on the grounds of whether the BSA should be judged as being a private organisation.

As a para-military organisation in all but name, it purports to groom people towards a role in a public service and purports, I suppose arguably, to serve as a public interest.

Or does it? On the flip side of the coin, what good would changing this do in terms of the earth-shattering ramifications for all the other heteronormative values that are firmly entrenched in the BSA way of life?

I wasn't actually serious about the petition, but perhaps another workaround might be suggested: create a parallel organisation that purports to teach living and survival skills but not in such a militaristic, homophobic fashion. I'm pretty sure that as an integrated whole the experience would be quite a different one for all participants involved...as well as being more applicable in the real-world situations we'd be involved in today, as opposed to the arcane 'manly man' images conjured up by the Neanderthals of Yesteryear.