Forums → WEPR → Atheism Plus

Ah, didn't have enough time to read all the videos, might as well get a post in before tomorrow.

I have not actually heard about this before mage mentioned it, as I have not listened to the "Atheist community" stuff in a while (Not enough in fighting for me.), but from what I did here (Read: What mage posted) I pretty much have to agree with what Mage said. My atheism has nothing to do with my morals, except in not having bad "morals" of someone else's thought. Calling myself an "Atheist +" makes about as much since as adding a plus to any other descriptor of me, like calling your doctor "Doctor +" to describe his political beliefs. They really have nothing to do with each other, so why put them together?

Pretty much agree with Mage and 314d1. it's just a group based on a series of opinions, which atheism is one apparently; but centering this on their atheism makes no sense as it does not link all other opinions per se.

Actually I think it's a very bad idea since it seemingly confirms all those erroneous accusations stating that atheism is more than just lack of belief. How are atheists now gonna make clear they're not part of a group if others are doing exactly that?

I just hope this atheism+ doesn't lead to too drastical social phenomenons like focalising morals in a similar constricted way like the American political two-party system, getting increasingly radical and leaving the moderate atheists and theists sideways...

seems like i don't necessarily fit into the atheist+ box.

Atheists plus we care about social justice,

I disagree with the Atheism plus idea. A lack of belief in god doesn't necessarily equate to feminism or egalitarianism. It's plain silly. It's jolly good and fine and dandy but linking a gamut of stuff together that have tenous links just muddles up each concept further and leads to obstruction in spreading such ideals. We already have trouble getting some patriarchal religions on accepting females in an equal partnership, let alone pairing it up with "godlessness".

Plus I don't believe in such groupings because it seems mutually exclusive. What if I'm feministic but religious? Would we argue or would we agree on issues? Don't conflate the two! There are of course certain ideas that link them; skepticism and more liberal mindsets can lead to both atheism and less parochial behavior such as anti racism. But then it's a whole new ball after that.

I could understand the Atheism+ tag when using it to differentiate between specific things regarding atheism (although what that would be is a short list and there are already ways to term it)...but it's not necessary either. It's just going to cause more misunderstandings that atheism is not a belief system or anything other than a y/n answer to a question.

The "Atheism +" movement tries to encompass things which don't have anything to do with atheism. Atheism is not a philosophy or ideology. Some atheists have left wing views, some right wing. The Atheism + people seem to argue that they are more atheistic than non-progressive atheists and frankly it's very silly to argue about what you do not believe.
Apart from a lack of belief in gods, why should atheists have anything else in common? Atheism is not some sort of secret sect ...

Anyway, it seems to me that some atheists are trying to be holier than thou.

Apart from a lack of belief in gods, why should atheists have anything else in common?

it seems like a good idea in theory, but in practice it is much harder to pull off. this ideal seems to be romanticizing the fact that we all have one common idea (a lack of belief) and using that as a reason to unite. so what if people share one common thing, unless it's a common enemy, we are better off just working on our own. I hold most of the same views that this little group does, but that doesn't mean it's the best option.

-Blade

Looking into it a bit more now that I have the time, it looks like many of the "Atheist +" (...Believers? Followers? Practitioners? What do you call someone under this philosophy?) seem to disagree with me on what things like "Feminism", "Social Justice", and "Racism" is. The fact that this has no "Unifying factor", it makes it a rather pointless title that says nothing about the person, or the person's belief, for that matter.

Not to mention that if it DOES get some unifying themes, then it is just getting some of the negative aspects of religion back into atheism, which could be worse in the long run. Over all it is either pointless or a bad thing, I will try to look into it more since I have time.

"Also I find it very ironic that some people in the atheist community are so concerned with attaching any X, Y, and Z to their label, especially when they get very distressed when theists try to claim "Oh you are an atheist so you must also believe X, Y and Z and all atheists must also believe that" then you come back with the statement of "Atheism is not a doctrine or a belief in anything" hate to tell you guys but you are attaching a big old bag of doctrine to yourselves. And I am a person who obviously believes in the rights of all people of all races, genders, sexes, etc. but that has nothing to do with my atheism...my atheism doesn't come from that nor does my lack of belief in a deity cause me to feel this way...In short I find all of this A+ crap is a tremendous waste of time and energy."