Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.) I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons. Supporting evidence: the following skit: What's your reason? Setting: A gun shop, modern day. A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please." The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?" The Customer says "I need one for personal protection." The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell." The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!" The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left. Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun." Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks. The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting." The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy. The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states. The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff. Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says. The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks. The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot! The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet. The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!" The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves. Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says. The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks. Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other". "Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly. The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer. "Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows. "Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"
Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!
The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?
let me tell you (again) the story of a woman who was at the Luby's Massecre. A gun owning woman who took her gun with her everywhere one day went out to eat with her parents. There was a sign that said no guns, so she figured, it's not like anything bad will happen and she left it in her vehicle. While she was there a car smashed through the side of the building, while everyone was going over to see if he was ok he started shooting people right and left. She was ducked behind a table and was reaching for her gun when she remembered that she had left it in her vehicle. After watching more and more people getting killed including both of her parents, the police finally arrived. I believe he was in the back doing I don't know what. The police started looking for the shooter and shot one bullet into the ceiling and after that he then proceeded to kill himself. If she had brought her gun in with her countless lives would have been saved. She still carries a gun and is all for gun-owning.
Let me also tell you a story. A study by the University of Pennsylvania's school of medicine estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
Let me also tell you a story. A study by the University of Pennsylvania's school of medicine estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
A: Why is a medical school studying shooting chances? B: That's what happens if you lack proper training. If you have both a bit of training in self defense and a gun, you are pretty unlikely to be murdered by your own weapon, but self defense or a gun by themselves are pretty worthless.
Sure, when you have 'roper training' you become a Marine. What realy could happen is this - she stand up with the gun, maybe even shoot. Miss, the gunner shot at her, she die.
And your story can ever fire back - wher does this man got a gun? Did he made it at home?
By these stories, its seems that the best solution is building a machin gun nest in every enturnace of public buildings, And people go around like in a ****ing 50' Western movie, with guns all over them. Isnt that look a little absord to you?
Anger problmes - I dont have anger problmes. im sure SSTG dont have anger problmes. Its something that pop up. When you are get realy mad. So yea, you can throw a rock. SSTG could throw a rock at the car. But rock, bullet, what the diffrunce heh? If i had a gun or my dad had one, i know some bullies {some didnt even bullied me} who could chat with the worms now instead of be here on the surface. Some of them grow up and became better. I planed on poison some of them, ill confess here. I even had the poision, home made chianid {it worked! [i didnt tested it on animals, only bugs]}. I could killed them. Man, maybe the police would never find out who did it. But i didnt. i had time to think. With a gun, its just go to his house, BAM BAM BAM and no more bullie. A gun is too much easy. You grab it, BAMM BAMM and you are done. Your boss fired you? BOOM. Your wife get you mad? BOOM. Some ******* crash your car? BOOM. and you will lie if you will say you never had these feelings. Of anger, Insult or Frustration.
Its remind me a story. A mounth ago, a man who worked in Eilat, Israel {a known vication site here} got fired. He brought his legaly owned gun and shot his Boss, a co-worker and some other people then commited suicide. He was from USA. Coincidence? I dont say all USAians are crazy, but ill explaine it that way - Loser. The word "Loser" is much more used as an insult then in the rest of the world. Its more insulting too. When someone is a Loser mean he his stuiped, goofy or both. You can see it in the Show buisness - movies, Tv shows and etc., and in way the masses look at hte poor. Why they are poor? Because they are lazy. Because they are Retard or have a 'stuiped' religions/faith/Ideas.
So when A dignitiy of a person get hurt, He must Act so he wont become a 'Loser'. Someone crossed you in the road? Lets revenge by crossing him back! Your boss say you are lazy? Lets do something on it {Maybe not pranking and etc, but cursing him and make a fool out of him}.
So when someone with a gun get upset, he have more damage potential then if he grab a knife. I didnt saw any case wher a man with a rock killed his boss and his co-workers, or when someone with an battle axe {deadly too isnt it?} assulted a school. And if it does happen, his damage is much less then a guy with a pistol.
So yea, a guard in a public place is legit {It does the standard in Israel. but because other Circumstances}. But again, arming hte population in case Pirates will assult there house with Bulletproof vests and Mini-Guns, Plundering raping and murdering everything in there sight {not only in that order}? it sound silly to me.
A criminal dont want to become a murderer. He want your money. Yhat it. He donr want blood on his hands. why would he? He just want the money to buy drugs/food/new shoes. Kill you so there wont be any witnesess? what you think he is, Alejandro Sosaâ? They dont think about it. If they do, they wont be in this place.
Lets get some Statistics! According to the US census, there were 5.0 murdures per 100,000 peoples in USA. There were 2067 cases of theft. So lets make a caculation - Does most of the Theft case end in a murdure? i cant hear you! that right! No! Does more then a precent of the theft cast end in murdure? No! 716 burglary cases per 100k. Does they ended in murdure? Niet.
So for the tiny little chanse of a Case wher a mad man will kill you for fun in a Dark street you say the entire population need to be armed?
Sure, when you have 'roper training' you become a Marine. What realy could happen is this - she stand up with the gun, maybe even shoot. Miss, the gunner shot at her, she die.
And your story can ever fire back - wher does this man got a gun? Did he made it at home?
By these stories, its seems that the best solution is building a machin gun nest in every enturnace of public buildings, And people go around like in a ****ing 50' Western movie, with guns all over them. Isnt that look a little absord to you?
Anger problmes - I dont have anger problmes. im sure SSTG dont have anger problmes. Its something that pop up. When you are get realy mad. So yea, you can throw a rock. SSTG could throw a rock at the car. But rock, bullet, what the diffrunce heh? If i had a gun or my dad had one, i know some bullies {some didnt even bullied me} who could chat with the worms now instead of be here on the surface. Some of them grow up and became better. I planed on poison some of them, ill confess here. I even had the poision, home made chianid {it worked! [i didnt tested it on animals, only bugs]}. I could killed them. Man, maybe the police would never find out who did it. But i didnt. i had time to think. With a gun, its just go to his house, BAM BAM BAM and no more bullie. A gun is too much easy. You grab it, BAMM BAMM and you are done. Your boss fired you? BOOM. Your wife get you mad? BOOM. Some ******* crash your car? BOOM. and you will lie if you will say you never had these feelings. Of anger, Insult or Frustration.
Its remind me a story. A mounth ago, a man who worked in Eilat, Israel {a known vication site here} got fired. He brought his legaly owned gun and shot his Boss, a co-worker and some other people then commited suicide. He was from USA. Coincidence? I dont say all USAians are crazy, but ill explaine it that way - Loser. The word "Loser" is much more used as an insult then in the rest of the world. Its more insulting too. When someone is a Loser mean he his stuiped, goofy or both. You can see it in the Show buisness - movies, Tv shows and etc., and in way the masses look at hte poor. Why they are poor? Because they are lazy. Because they are Retard or have a 'stuiped' religions/faith/Ideas.
So when A dignitiy of a person get hurt, He must Act so he wont become a 'Loser'. Someone crossed you in the road? Lets revenge by crossing him back! Your boss say you are lazy? Lets do something on it {Maybe not pranking and etc, but cursing him and make a fool out of him}.
So when someone with a gun get upset, he have more damage potential then if he grab a knife. I didnt saw any case wher a man with a rock killed his boss and his co-workers, or when someone with an battle axe {deadly too isnt it?} assulted a school. And if it does happen, his damage is much less then a guy with a pistol.
So yea, a guard in a public place is legit {It does the standard in Israel. but because other Circumstances}. But again, arming hte population in case Pirates will assult there house with Bulletproof vests and Mini-Guns, Plundering raping and murdering everything in there sight {not only in that order}? it sound silly to me.
A criminal dont want to become a murderer. He want your money. Yhat it. He donr want blood on his hands. why would he? He just want the money to buy drugs/food/new shoes. Kill you so there wont be any witnesess? what you think he is, Alejandro Sosaâ? They dont think about it. If they do, they wont be in this place.
Lets get some Statistics! According to the US census, there were 5.0 murdures per 100,000 peoples in USA. There were 2067 cases of theft. So lets make a caculation - Does most of the Theft case end in a murdure? i cant hear you! that right! No! Does more then a precent of the theft cast end in murdure? No! 716 burglary cases per 100k. Does they ended in murdure? Niet.
So for the tiny little chanse of a Case wher a mad man will kill you for fun in a Dark street you say the entire population need to be armed?
After puzzling through your errant grammar, how about this:
A: Where the heck did you get the idea that the ones of us who support gun ownership think it's okay to run around and kill people? Try and read the lines before reading between them.
B: Nowhere have we mentioned that the entire population needs guns, we just support the idea of being able to carry one. -_-
C: I have never said that robbers are inclined to murder, but you might be inclined to kill the robber.
D: I never compared a rock and a bullet, you think I do not know the power of a gun?
And perhaps some quotes might be in order? I have no idea where the heck you are getting your allegations against us from.
A: Why is a medical school studying shooting chances?
Because they also are learning how to treat bullet wounds? What you're asking is akin to asking why a shipwright studies what boats break from the most.
A study by the University of Pennsylvania's school of medicine estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
Makes sense. People who are a threat/can fight back are going to be shot at first, and with less hesitation since their own life would be on the line if they were shot.
If i had a gun or my dad had one, i know some bullies {some didnt even bullied me} who could chat with the worms now instead of be here on the surface.
Again, all that proves is that you shouldn't have a gun if you can't control yourself. Not everyone is like that.
A gun is too much easy. You grab it, BAMM BAMM and you are done. Your boss fired you? BOOM. Your wife get you mad?
I'm seeing a common theme here with a lot of those arguing against guns.
You all seem to be scared that if you had a gun you would end up killing/seriously harming someone. To that, all I have to say is...don't get a gun? Is it really that hard? If you know you can't handle something, don't get it? That also doesn't mean that just because you can't handle it means no one else can either.
you will lie if you will say you never had these feelings. Of anger, Insult or Frustration.
Of course everyone feels angry, frustrated, or insulted at some point. That doesn't mean we'd kill those who made us feel that way if we had a gun.
As you said earlier, you even made a poison. How many people go that far?
He was from USA. Coincidence?
Most likely. You recall the story because it was someone from the USA. There are probably more examples of people from Israel shooting others in Israel than people from the USA using guns in Israel.
So when A dignitiy of a person get hurt, He must Act so he wont become a 'Loser'. Someone crossed you in the road? Lets revenge by crossing him back! Your boss say you are lazy? Lets do something on it
This is the problem. There is no "must" to this statement. This way of thinking is immature and escalatory, not to mention dangerous.
it sound silly to me.
It sounds just as silly to us when you say that everyone who gets the slightest flare up in emotions is going to end up shooting someone.
According to the US census, there were 5.0 murdures per 100,000 peoples in USA. There were 2067 cases of theft. So lets make a caculation - Does most of the Theft case end in a murdure? i cant hear you! that right! No!
1) You're comparing one aspect of theft to the entire list of murders. 2) We never said that robbers want to kill everyone. 3) Not all thefts take place with someone else there anyways.
So for the tiny little chanse of a Case wher a mad man will kill you for fun in a Dark street you say the entire population need to be armed?
No, that is not what we're saying.
Seriously, read what we type. Stop raging about how we're all redneck hillbillies who think everyone should have a rifle and go hunting every weekend and who have anger issues.
A: Why is a medical school studying shooting chances?
Cause they treat bullet wounds?
B: That's what happens if you lack proper training. If you have both a bit of training in self defense and a gun, you are pretty unlikely to be murdered by your own weapon, but self defense or a gun by themselves are pretty worthless.
That's irrelevant to the issue of gun control, IMO. Kind of like a red herring.
That's irrelevant to the issue of gun control, IMO. Kind of like a red herring.
And what you said was completely relevant? Face it, if you are inexperienced, a gun is no help. If you have a little practice and know how to counter a blow, you're deadly. What part of "you do not have to own a gun but you are allowed to carry one if you wish" isn't being understood here?
And what you said was completely relevant? Face it, if you are inexperienced, a gun is no help. If you have a little practice and know how to counter a blow, you're deadly. What part of "you do not have to own a gun but you are allowed to carry one if you wish" isn't being understood here?
It was irrelevant, because studies have already shown crystal clearly that toting a gun is significantly more dangerous; not because the user is inexperienced, but because guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations and because as Kasic has mentioned, it spooks the attacker even more into pulling the trigger.
Its not because the bullet wounds. They are mostly psycholigists or etc., Or its just Statistics they got from Hospitals. Like they found what can give you cancer, They find out that.
And master, You can be the best marksmen on your country and completly sane, but if your littel son grab it, if your wife just took you over the edge, if your husbande beat you, if its stolen. That the problme. Not what are you now, what your family, your anger can make you or them. Its just clear, a man with a gun is much more dangerouse. And not all of them are So Good at keeping there Emotions and feelings like you. Not all of them can Control themselve in 100% all the time like you. Everyone have a breaking point. this Poison story, Is after some realy long and hard period of gettign bullied. i was frostraited. What is your breaking point? when you will be able to go and act with a gun in your hands?
And the number of Cases wher someone shot someone in israel is so tiny, that this case of USA Citizen who worked in Israel and shot his boss and some 4 other peopels Changed the Statistics. its just dont happen. In the rare cases it does, Its Policemans and And Security Mans, who shot there wife and suicide. All the cases exept the US citizen are like these.
I dont know about most of the world, But in israel a Mad man never ever ever did a massacer. There were never a armed student on the ball tower here. And teh reason we have security guards in public places is not Because what this Gun liking Club thought, Its because we are in a war with a terrorist group.
What is your threat? Peoples with guns. And yea, most of them are ok. I know. But the 0.01, the 0.0001 who are not fully sane. these who can get so angry, so Frustrated, Like these poor kids who go shot in schools, like the wierdo who wanted to be speicel so he wear the character of the "Joker", Like this teen, who supposed to be in a Mental Hospital, Who just got mad and did this.
So i ask - Why you need a gun? In case A mad man attack? Be the Hero? That the case? Or you just want to sleep well, knowing you can kill any threat?
And master, You can be the best marksmen on your country and completly sane, but if your littel son grab it
If i do have a gun, im gonna teach my son how to use it without hurting himself, and im going to be a responsible parent and not keep the gun somewhere that my kid can grab it
[quote]Why would you need a gun?
To protect myself, and my family, if there is a robber in my house or I am getting mugged, im not gonna be waiting for the police to come, im going to want to have the gun that I own and be able to defend myself, and if you arent mentally stable enough to own a gun, dont, i know that i am perfectly capable of not killing someone just because they flip me the bird, I dont know about you, but im capable of controlling myself
But the 0.01, the 0.0001 who are not fully sane. these who can get so angry, so Frustrated
ok, but most people involved in massacres have assault rifles or extended mags in pistols or things like that, all i need is a little snub nosed revolver, i agree with laws making it extremely difficult to have a fully automatic weapon, yes, you can still get it, but whenever someone uses a weapon in a huge bloodbath massacre, they have illegal weapons, taking away my self defense weapon is just gonna pis me off and prevent me from defending my family, not to mention it will probably take away my hunting weapons which will make me even angrier while at the same time, people will still illegally obtain guns and still kill people
Its Policemans and And Security Mans, who shot there wife and suicide.
Why do you trust them for public security if they're unstable enough to do this sort of thing? What prevents a group of them from going nuts and rampaging, or going door to door robbing and killing people? If they're the only ones with guns, how would they be stopped?
It was irrelevant, because studies have already shown crystal clearly that toting a gun is significantly more dangerous; not because the user is inexperienced, but because guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact
So far, most of the arguments against stopping public threats have boiled down to "What if the good guy missed or hit a civilian, giving the bad guy time to shoot back?" They can't shoot back or overreact with a bullet in their brain.
So i ask - Why you need a gun? In case A mad man attack? Be the Hero? That the case? Or you just want to sleep well, knowing you can kill any threat?
I am going to drive this point through your head: Nowhere have we said you need a gun. We support the right to carry one.
Why do you trust them for public security if they're unstable enough to do this sort of thing? What prevents a group of them from going nuts and rampaging, or going door to door robbing and killing people? If they're the only ones with guns, how would they be stopped?
Exactly. What happens if the government gets corrupted or the police force goes to the dogs? Unlikely, but quite possible in our modern world.
ok, but most people involved in massacres have assault rifles or extended mags in pistols or things like that, all i need is a little snub nosed revolver, i agree with laws making it extremely difficult to have a fully automatic weapon, yes, you can still get it, but whenever someone uses a weapon in a huge bloodbath massacre, they have illegal weapons, taking away my self defense weapon is just gonna pis me off and prevent me from defending my family, not to mention it will probably take away my hunting weapons which will make me even angrier while at the same time, people will still illegally obtain guns and still kill people
indeed. We don't need to be able to buy P90s or whatever, but revolvers and hunting rifles are fine.
And about these "madmen" I don't know about you people, but I would boot their sorry insane arses into an Asylum. If they're that crazy, they bloody well won't be walking around. We don't support guns so you can get angry and go kill people, we support them because they can ensure self-defense in the right hands. See there? That means not the ones who can't find the safety switch or whose arm flies off when they fire.
I think that's the problem. We're driving the points through their head, not into them. Or we're doing something wrong, seeing as how they keep going on like a broken record that they think we think that everyone needs a gun to protect themselves.
we support them because they can ensure self-defense in the right hands.
There's also simply target shooting or whatever sports wise for why people might want to own a gun.
There's also simply target shooting or whatever sports wise for why people might want to own a gun.
Indeed, and hunting. Some people still hunt for a living. Rare, but still happens.
I think that's the problem. We're driving the points through their head, not into them. Or we're doing something wrong, seeing as how they keep going on like a broken record that they think we think that everyone needs a gun to protect themselves.
Hah! Good wordplay there.
Now, you people who argue against gun ownership, regarding the fact that we support OWNING A GUN FOR RECREATIONAL OR SELF DEFENSE PURPOSES and not YOU HAVE TO OWN A GUN, what wonderful arguments can you shoot around now?
what wonderful arguments can you shoot around now?
I can already speak for them.
1) You don't "need" a gun. 2) Angry people still might get their hands on them. 3) Guns kill people easier than knives.
#1 goes for many things. #2 deals with responsibility. Yes, we need tighter gun control. #3 is ignoring the issue. People kill, whether or not there are guns.
