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Best form of Government

Posted Feb 5, '13 at 11:57am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,460 posts

Knight

It's not as if I would abolish democracy as a whole. However, democracy is inefficient because of it's failure to educate people. It becomes a circus of mud slinging and pandering.

It does not fail to educate people as it is not the goal of any governmental system to assure everyone is always top up-to-date. And that's what discussions and party debates and campaigns are for. Yes, it can become mud slinging fests on particularly touchy subjects, but the people are not stupid, and the other parties will always have an interest in pointing out flaws in the others argumentation. The voter can then look at both sides; and if certain voters are biased anyway, it's not the fault of the politicians.
 

Posted Feb 5, '13 at 5:02pm

wolf1991

wolf1991

3,537 posts

, but the people are not stupid,


See this is where we disagree. When it comes to politics everyone is stupid. There are just some who are less stupid than others.

The voter can then look at both sides; and if certain voters are biased anyway, it's not the fault of the politicians.


Yes, actually it is. The politicians, are to some degree, responsible for the message which they put out. I am sure that when they misinform the public they do so intentionally in order to garner votes, that's how democracy works. The media is another party to blame, because the media also deliberately supports their chosen bias. Lastly is the public, mainly those who fail to educate themselves on the issues at hand.

So in a way, it is a democratic society's responsibility to educate its public. This way people would be informed and able to make the sober judgements on who they believe is best to run their country. When a politician deliberately lies to gain votes they are harming the system by spreading misinformation.
 

Posted Feb 5, '13 at 6:15pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,460 posts

Knight

See this is where we disagree. When it comes to politics everyone is stupid. There are just some who are less stupid than others.

Well then every government form is stupid because people are all stupid. I don't say that we are all bright fellows, far from that; but the collective mind is more intelligent than every single individual on themselves. Politicians will rarely outright lie, usually twist or conceal information to their benefit. But if there are ten parties doing the same, you're either biased from the beginning and thus a lost case anyway, or you go mining for facts on yourself. See, politicians are responsible of giving us real information, but we, the voters, are just as much responsible of informing ourselves with several media and other sources. So when you say

in a way, it is a democratic society's responsibility to educate its public
, you are correctly using the term society instead of politicians.

When a politician deliberately lies to gain votes they are harming the system by spreading misinformation.

Yes, but I see no government system where such a thing can be avoided. Because even in a meritocracy, this will happen. The mere fact of being intelligent and educated does not mean you abide by the rules and take all your responsibilities seriously. Under that aspect, I see democracy still as the best, or maybe I should say least bad, system.
 

Posted Feb 5, '13 at 9:01pm

thugtastic

thugtastic

164 posts

everyone is not equal. the bullies and rich have the power and the rest has to fight for what it needs.

This is why it fails alongside democracy, Communism, and really any other form of government.
 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 1:42am

Getoffmydangle

Getoffmydangle

151 posts

educate what?
and how is there a link between a government system and education levels?


I would respond to that by referring you to the words of Thomas Jefferson:
1786 August 13. (to George Wythe) "I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness...Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.]"


Long story short--> the US system of govt (by the people, for the people, or the people) is dependent on a well-informed citizenry -->therefore it is a responsibility of the govt to educate the citizens. The govt can't force you to stay current on the issues or follow politics, but it can provide for the education so that you can understand the issues, and understand why its important for you to understand the issues.
 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 12:20pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,269 posts

the US system of govt (by the people, for the people, or the people) is dependent on a well-informed citizenry -->therefore it is a responsibility of the govt to educate the citizens. The govt can't force you to stay current on the issues or follow politics, but it can provide for the education so that you can understand the issues, and understand why its important for you to understand the issues.

it still doesn't say what they need to educate people.

and because the usa has this or that sentence somewhere, doesn't make it so that every democracy on the planet is the same. or that a communist system would do better. or any other system for that matter.

i still dont see your link between a government system and education levels.
 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 1:10pm

Getoffmydangle

Getoffmydangle

151 posts

it still doesn't say what they need to educate people.


I'm not really understanding your question. Are you asking specifically which subjects should be taught?

and because the usa has this or that sentence somewhere, doesn't make it so that every democracy on the planet is the same. or that a communist system would do better. or any other system for that matter.


For the survival of any form of government, the decision makers, whoever they are, need to be educated and informed so that they make smart decisions. It doesn't matter if its communism, socialism, Fascism, democracy, monarchy, oligarchy, military dictatorship, etc. In the case of a democracy, every time there is an election the entire population becomes the decision makers... therefore democracies such as the USA (and many others) are dependent on the population to make informed decisions that directly impact the future of the country. In some other forms of government, this burden/privilege never gets put on the whole population, and instead stays in the hands of the ruling person/party/class. For political purposes, those countries only need to educate those in charge (for economic reasons, they would benefit from educating the population, but thats a different thread I suppose).

i still dont see your link between a government system and education levels.

If my previous response you quoted and this one don't explain my position well enough, I'm not sure I know how to do so.
 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 3:15pm

zeus999

zeus999

34 posts

Its not really who's the best president in the USA its who has the most money, best campaign organizers etc... and of course if they choose the right image. The majority of the public is to weak-minded for it to be anything else.

 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 3:44pm

partydevil

partydevil

5,269 posts

I'm not really understanding your question. Are you asking specifically which subjects should be taught?

"educating the citizens" is a very broad idea. if they all fail to educate their people then how come we know so much? (as population in a whole.)

so i wonder what you think they should educate better and/or more.

For the survival of any form of government, the decision makers, whoever they are, need to be educated and informed so that they make smart decisions. It doesn't matter if its communism, socialism, Fascism, democracy, monarchy, oligarchy, military dictatorship, etc. In the case of a democracy, every time there is an election the entire population becomes the decision makers... therefore democracies such as the USA (and many others) are dependent on the population to make informed decisions that directly impact the future of the country.

it's impossible to learn the entire population about every political detail.
and there is no need to educate this to them. (who might not even want to know) it will only balast them whit information they have nothing to do whit in their daily job and life untill they go fill in a paper after 4 or so year.
the time for the government to let the people know what they stand for is the election period. this few months should be enough for anyone to get to know their options.
that it in the usa becomes a mud throwing fest. is a usa problem. it doesn't matter it happens everywhere. in my country the politicians in election period are clean and speech what they stand for. (except 1 nutjob.)

and i'm totally for the idea of a test befor the actual vote. but i dont think it's entirely fair. it sure would rise my eyebrow if it becomes reality.

If my previous response you quoted and this one don't explain my position well enough, I'm not sure I know how to do so.

well if we go for math, we see some asian countries scoring very high above average. due to government stimulations. but not all these countries have the same government system.
if we go for education in chemical and medical research, we see west europe and north america scoring high above average.
my country invests lots of money in water management. by doing so it has educated the population about this topic and have we become to worlds experts. i can't say the government didn't educated enough about water management. they did/do a rather good job.
 

Posted Feb 6, '13 at 7:17pm

fantasy4life

fantasy4life

1,936 posts

Anyway we put it, people will never be satisfied with the way the country is ruled, there will always be commotion. People are just to selfish, and unsympathetic towards others, if it doesn't suit them best they don't care. And it doesn't help when politicians also share the same nature of selfishness and indifference.

 
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