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afterlife

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 2:52am

PauseBreak

PauseBreak

318 posts

im an atheist and my grandfather died recently. now i am soo scared i will never see or hear him again help


I just watched this long series of video on discussions of quantum mechanics and theology and all that jazz. I want to make a note on the two kinds of "atheists" that I've seen argue their points.

The first kind is the most disgusting human being there is. The kind that doesn't care what belief structure or any beliefs you may hold. Their entire being is to destroy and mock what you hold dear. If you don't believe exactly what they believe, then you are a moron. They are terrible people. But there aren't many of them, so that's the good news.

The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.

Maybe this will ease you some. Think of it this way. You cannot destroy something that is fundamental. The mind is fundamental. Sure, the body dies and decays. But there is nothing physical about the mind.

If that doesn't help, what helps me during trying times when all seems lost and meaningless. I ask myself, why its there something instead of just nothing? Its a bit comforting.

I don't know. When dealing with a true atheist its hard to comfort them. When they have nothing but the material world to hold on to. Especially now that the highest mathematics is proving that the material isn't so material after all.

What do you expect us to say? If you believe in nothing then you reap nothing.
 

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 3:09am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,413 posts

Knight

They are terrible people. But there aren't many of them, so that's the good news.

That's a problem of certain individuals, not of atheism. Such people come in all sorts of confessions.

My point: they have a god but by any other name.

You were watching a show on quantum mechanics and theology. Sounds like pseudo-science. Don't expect a rational atheist to show up there.

I don't mean to make it harder for Lanod, but there's nothing immaterial about the mind. Ever heard of the brain?
But really the only thing that means is once you die, you stop existing. Is that good or bad for the living? Depends on your own viewpoint. I for instance like to see inexistance as complete and eternal piece. You don't get buggered with any kind of afterlife that might not suit you. There's no risk that your family ends up tortured for some wimpy reason. Really, it's the best thing that could possibly happen.
 

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 9:38am

Kasic

Kasic

5,750 posts

The first kind is the most disgusting human being there is. The kind that doesn't care what belief structure or any beliefs you may hold. Their entire being is to destroy and mock what you hold dear. If you don't believe exactly what they believe, then you are a moron. They are terrible people. But there aren't many of them, so that's the good news.


I don't agree that said militant atheists are the most disgusting type of human beings. They may be arrogant, annoying, in your face, and self righteous, but I haven't heard any cases of militant atheism causing millions of deaths, prosecutions, or any other such things. They're just annoying and need a good punch in the face.

The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.


If they believe in a higher power but just not the Christian/Muslim/Jewish god, they're not atheists.
I don't believe in any higher powers. I don't claim that none for sure exist, because there's no conclusive evidence saying otherwise. That doesn't mean I automatically think it's likely, or real. Quite the opposite.

But there is nothing physical about the mind.


Except the brain. Stab that a few times and people sort of stop moving, you know? Do certain things to it and people no longer remember. Or their personalities change. Or their body stops working right, or they can't think about certain things or in certain ways.

Mind showing me exactly where the mind isn't physical?

When dealing with a true atheist its hard to comfort them. When they have nothing but the material world to hold on to. Especially now that the highest mathematics is proving that the material isn't so material after all.


This is quite frankly, just ignorant. I don't believe in a higher power. That suddenly means I'm unable to cope with the concept of death? Like hell. Things die. Yes, it's sad and they're gone. But they had a life and they lived it, and, hopefully, it was a good life. What more can you ask for? In other cases, people were suffering before they died. I don't believe that people live on in some imaginary paradise after they die. I don't need to comfort myself that way.
 

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 5:01pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,787 posts

Knight

I want to make a note on the two kinds of "atheists" that I've seen argue their points.


Atheism is far more varied than that.

The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.


That's not an atheist, that's just a theist of another belief system.

But there is nothing physical about the mind.


It is very much based on physical processes.

"A mind is the complex of cognitive faculties that enables consciousness, thinking, reasoning, perception, and judgementâ"a characteristic of human beings, but which also may apply to other life forms." - wiki

All cognitive functions is just the function of the brain.

I ask myself, why its there something instead of just nothing?


Why would there be nothing?

I don't know. When dealing with a true atheist its hard to comfort them. When they have nothing but the material world to hold on to. Especially now that the highest mathematics is proving that the material isn't so material after all.


Belief in an afterlife really isn't any more comforting than not believing ins such things. I'm speaking from dealing with death on both sides of the spectrum here. You're going to have that feeling of loss if you believe or not.

What do you expect us to say? If you believe in nothing then you reap nothing.


Being atheist doesn't mean believing in nothing.
 

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 6:17pm

Bladerunner679

Bladerunner679

2,534 posts

I just watched this long series of video on discussions of quantum mechanics and theology and all that jazz. I want to make a note on the two kinds of "atheists" that I've seen argue their points.


is it me, or did you just go westboro baptist by insulting his views, a group of people, and then set yours up to be better, right in the middle of him seeking advice to cope with death? how insensitive are you?

The first kind is the most disgusting human being there is. The kind that doesn't care what belief structure or any beliefs you may hold. Their entire being is to destroy and mock what you hold dear. If you don't believe exactly what they believe, then you are a moron. They are terrible people. But there aren't many of them, so that's the good news.


I'm going to become one of those if I ever see you pull crap like this ever again. it's not that we hate your views, we just hate you for forcing them on us without our consent.

The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.


this again? the whole "atheist religion" thing? that's almost as bad as arguing for god because of the "universal constants".

But there is nothing physical about the mind.


ever heard of the term "brain dead"? the mind is a series of chemical reactions, nothing more.

If you believe in nothing then you reap nothing.


honestly, nothing sounds way better than thinking this life is only a test with impossible standards.

@OP- with that I'm sorry for your loss, but nothing good comes from grasping too hard at someone's memory. don't forget him, but don't mourn forever, or it will only make the pain worse.

-Blade
 

Posted Feb 7, '13 at 7:22pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,787 posts

Knight

PauseBreak, I would recommend watching this video.
"What is an Atheist? - A Better Understanding of the Godless" - Chris Dees

 

Posted Feb 8, '13 at 2:53am

Devoidless

Devoidless

3,838 posts

I want to make a note on the two kinds of "atheists" that I've seen argue their points.

That would be like me saying the following:

There are only two kinds of theists. The first kind is the scum of the earth and spread their religion everywhere they can. They shove it in your face and mock/look down on you if you don't follow their specific belief system. Any attempt to discuss religion with them leads to them treating you like an idiot and hiding behind bible quotes.

The second kind are the ones who are forced to belief a certain religion for fear of being disowned by their family or community. Regardless of how they really feel or might believe, they pretend until the day they die to be part of the group; thus making them a spineless worm for not living for themselves.

NOTE
Those are not my beliefs about theists. The above is simply an equally intellectually bereft breakdown of religious views.

That said, how does that sound when the spin in equally returned in the other direction?
 

Posted Feb 8, '13 at 5:35am

zeus999

zeus999

34 posts

The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.


That's not atheist I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they would be classified as either agnostic(I'm agnostic) or theistic.
 

Posted Feb 8, '13 at 7:55pm

BigP08

BigP08

1,469 posts

The first kind is the most disgusting human being there is. The kind that doesn't care what belief structure or any beliefs you may hold. Their entire being is to destroy and mock what you hold dear. If you don't believe exactly what they believe, then you are a moron. They are terrible people. But there aren't many of them, so that's the good news.

I have two things to say to this. One, saying there aren't many of them is an understatement. I know quite a few atheists and absolutely none of them are like this. Some atheists can become heated in discussions, as I have been guilty of on some occasions, but that's hardly an accurate picture of their whole character. Second, the most disgusting human being there is would be someone that makes fun of your religion? How about mass murderers? How about those who held slaves? How about rapists? Challenging someone to think critically about their beliefs and having a discussion is a good thing. My best friend is a Catholic and when we have religious debates we don't hold back. We're not any less of friends for it either.
You've already got some good responses to this part of your post, so I'll just leave them there for now, but it seems odd to me that
The second kind was the self proclaimed "atheist". But after long questions and thought out answers, its not that they don't believe in a higher power. Its really, that they don't believe in an old man sitting on a throne out in the cosmos. Or that they don't believe in calling it god, but rather call themselves Secular just to stay away from the notation of a western/eastern deity.
My point: they have a god but by any other name.

It's possible that you could define a God that some atheists would agree exists. If God is "the universe", then I wouldn't deny that the universe exists. The problem with this stuff is that when people say things like that they mean that this thing they call God has a personality of some sort and a will of its own, and that has not been demonstrated.
And I apologize if this offends you but have you ever met any atheists? It's really insulting when you say that "no, atheists just have a misrepresentation of god" or "atheists really do believe in god". I'm not sure if you were trying to imply that atheism is religious in a sense or if atheists know there's a god and pretend not to know. I believed in god for twenty years, bud. I rationalized his existence with arguments I didn't understand, things about infinity, objective morality, etc, but when it comes down to it, I don't believe a god exists. I don't claim to know that god doesn't exist, and I don't take a faith based position because the default is to disbelieve things until they are demonstrated. That's why we don't believe in fairies, unicorns, and the Loch Ness monster.
Maybe this will ease you some. Think of it this way. You cannot destroy something that is fundamental. The mind is fundamental. Sure, the body dies and decays. But there is nothing physical about the mind

The brain is physical, but I'm sure by mind you probably are heading in the direction of the soul. I don't have any evidence that anything other than my brain and nervous system controls me, and I don't have any evidence that any of my personality is going to be preserved after I die.
But even if you're right, I'm not sure what that proves. An afterlife doesn't necessarily mean that there's a god.
If that doesn't help, what helps me during trying times when all seems lost and meaningless. I ask myself, why its there something instead of just nothing? Its a bit comforting.

I get the impression that you think atheists are scared of the idea that there's no god. I'm not. Truth be told, the God I used to believe in, the God of the Bible, is the most monstrous and evil being I could ever imagine. I would be scared if he actually did exist. If there's really a superman out there that hides from us and forces us to guess that he exists or else, then he is immoral. If we get eternally punished for finite crimes, then that is immoral.
I'm not asking you to agree with me, but I want you to understand. I don't necessarily represent all atheists, but there are probably a fair amount of atheists on this site that agree with me.
Anyway, to answer your question, I don't know why there is something instead of nothing. I'm not going to pretend to have an answer. Believing in God without evidence is pretending to have an answer. You should look up the argument from ignorance fallacy. As a side note, look up every theistic argument you can intent on saying "therefore God" and I dare you to find one that doesn't commit a logical fallacy.
I don't know. When dealing with a true atheist its hard to comfort them. When they have nothing but the material world to hold on to.

What's really sad, to me, is dealing with believers that are so focused on working for an afterlife that somebody told you might be out there, that they forget to live the only life we know we're going to have. I know you are probably being sincere here, and so am I.
Especially now that the highest mathematics is proving that the material isn't so material after all.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. If you have links to sources about the sciences you mentioned above, specifically confirmation about this claim that you made, that'd be appreciated. I always like to evalute claims.
What do you expect us to say? If you believe in nothing then you reap nothing.

Atheists don't believe in nothing. We believe in things that have been demonstrated to be true. I think it is unwise to jump to assertions about things we don't know. If we instead try to learn, we can find out the truth and then have justification to believe.

im an atheist and my grandfather died recently. now i am soo scared i will never see or hear him again help

Unfortunately I don't know that there's anything that we can say to help you. If it helps, being an atheist means you are dealing with reality and not pretending that you know it's going to get better.
We all have to die, and dealing with death is hard. The only thing I can say to you is to live. If we wanted to weep over all the bad things that have happened, we could do it for our whole lifetime. We can also rejoice for all the good things that happen and will continue to happen in our lives.
Here's a nice response as well:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/01/dealing-with-death-as-an-atheist.html
Good luck.
 

Posted Feb 8, '13 at 8:02pm

BigP08

BigP08

1,469 posts

You've already got some good responses to this part of your post, so I'll just leave them there for now, but it seems odd to me that

Sorry, I think I accidentally deleted part of that.

You've already got some good responses to this part of your post, so I'll just leave them there for now, but it seems odd to me that you have this idea of atheists hating all your beliefs. I challenge unjustified beliefs, particularly when people run up in my face and say, "Have you been saved by Jesus? You're an atheist? Then obviously you know less about the Bible that I do. You clearly don't understand." People get what they give, and no offense, but this post was rude, especially considering you're trying to convert an atheist while they're down and misrepresenting the majority of atheists by taking two simplistic views, one of which doesn't represent any atheists I've ever met or seen giving speeches, and the other which is by definition not an atheist.
 
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