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not believing means send to hell?

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:31pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,954 posts

Can you prove Leonidas existed? or arostotle, galileo, socrates, ceaser, any one of them existed?
For all we know the statues and paintings attributes as their's could be work of mad men.


With these people..their existence can be questioned, but also defended. There is work by them, but there is also outside evidence besides evidence provided by themselves

Example:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Justus_Sustermans_-_Portrait_of_Galileo_Galilei%2C_1636.jpg/220px-Justus_Sustermans_-_Portrait_of_Galileo_Galilei%2C_1636.jpg
Galileo Galilei Portrait done by Giusto Sustermans

With Jesus..we have words that others state he said. There is no works of his own, no dwellings, no work of carpentry, etc. The only evidence is what others said about him

Also..the statement was that Jesus for a fact actually existed and that you cannot disavow that Jesus Christ existed, was real, and was here....when in actuality, you can. The statement provided by thepunisher does nothing to prove Jesus and his existence, but brings up others we can question.

When it comes to a religious head figure, all of a sudden there are now doubts on their existence? lol


No, Buddha existed. Jesus, however, can be questioned and doubted very easily due to hearsay being his only evidence

As to Pang


*pang

As to pang, I am not trying to start a debate on which is the correct religion, I am just saying, from a spiritual sense, the teachings of Jesus make much more sense than that of most of the other biblical figures from the bible or koran


What about other faiths? There are plenty of other faiths than those that stemmed from the Bible and Qur'an

Jesus did not say, go worship your father at a Catholic Church, he did not say go worship him at a Lutheran or Baptist Church. He just said worship him.


Holy Trinity (God, Jesus, Holy spirit)
God
Jesus

Different denominations have one of these as their head figure. Which is the "correct" "Him" to worship?

For some denominations, Christ is merely the Son of God, for others..he is God. Then we have some that believe it is not something that is split a part as so..but that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all unison. Technically speaking, they are difference figures to worship..so which is the "correct" one?
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:34pm

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

9,954 posts

So teaching you to love your neighbor, care for the sick and the poor, the children is contestable and doesn't make sense? How is that so?


What about teaching that when a woman is on her period..she is not allowed in the home?

Or when a woman is r@ped, she must marry her r@pist..and if she does not do so her father must stone her?

Or men are not allowed to shave?
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:36pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

So teaching you to love your neighbor, care for the sick and the poor, the children is contestable and doesn't make sense? How is that so?


Try looking beyond. Jesus did far more than that in the Bible, not all of it good. Not only that, people have used religion and Christianity in particular as personal justifications for committing evil and persecuting others. Even today that continues across the world, against homosexuals and atheists and nonbelievers. They force their views on others in the name of "Jesus Christ."

Nothing is entirely good or evil.

We are all born with a sense of morality, we know right from wrong. Tell me which of those things is wrong in your opinion.


We are not born with a sense of morality. We learn morality from society and our parents, our friends, and introspection. Right and wrong are subjective.
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:36pm

Vendablebow

Vendablebow

30 posts

Technically speaking, they are difference figures to worship..so which is the "correct" one?


Well technically Jesus said, "The only way to the father is through me."

Even the Koran lists Jesus as at least a prophet in their eyes, although they do not refer to him as the Son of God.

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.

Jesus gave up his life for everyone so that they can be saved. Sorry but, even the dullest knife in the drawer could identify Jesus as the Superhero here.
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:39pm

Vendablebow

Vendablebow

30 posts

Jesus also never said for you to kill someone in his name either. I do not recall ever reading a quote such as that from any book of the new testament. Jesus said all the right things, it us who have done the wrong.

It is easy to get caught up in it, the crusades, your average crazy as*s religious fanatic, but in the end everything he said was truth. What is truth? You already know what it is.

 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:43pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,746 posts

Well technically Jesus said, "The only way to the father is through me."


Yes, send the only way to heaven ~4000 years after humanity is created. Everyone born before that time, well, sucks to be them I suppose.

Even the Koran lists Jesus as at least a prophet in their eyes, although they do not refer to him as the Son of God.


The Koran directly refutes that Jesus was the son of God.

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.


Unwillingly. God made a bet with Satan on whether Job would give up his faith if God took everything from him. Satan had some lols and God punished one of his most loyal followers for absolutely no reason, because Satan egged him on. This is supposed to demonstrate God's loving, just nature, right?

Jesus gave up his life for everyone so that they can be saved. Sorry but, even the dullest knife in the drawer could identify Jesus as the Superhero here.


Jesus was born to be sacrificed. That's what God created him for. God could not forgive everyone for being how he created them, so instead he creates another innocent person and has him brutally killed.

Jesus also never said for you to kill someone in his name either.


No, but he did go on and on and on about how perfect he was and how everyone else was terrible. Narcissistic, at the very least. He also got violent with a few people and affirmed God's previous commands. In addition to saying that everything he did was just and that everything God did was just, which includes having killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Jesus said all the right things, it us who have done the wrong.


And God made us.

What is truth? You already know what it is.


Protip: Don't make statements like this. In a debate scenario, you're asking for trouble if you say this.
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:57pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,802 posts

Knight

All three are very similar in context.


That's because they all have the same origin.

He was kind, and we know for a fact actually existed.


Actully no we don't know that for a fact. Actually I would say Muhammad has better historicity.

but one thing you cannot disavow is that Jesus Christ existed, was real, and was here.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23332906.jpg

Can you prove Leonidas existed? or arostotle, galileo, socrates, ceaser, any one of them existed?

Thank you sir, and this is my point. When it comes to a religious head figure, all of a sudden there are now doubts on their existence? lol


It's possible some of them didn't exist, and were just devices by others. Though determining the existence of a historic figure we look for things like first hand accounts and physical evidence. We find writings from their students talking about the person. (Unlike the Bible which is written by an anonymous author and just has a contemporaries name attached as credit)

We can cross reference other historical events and see how the described events match up.
Jesus Timeline

We can examine the writing for possible forgery o influence by earlier fictional writings.
Excavating The Empty Tomb

Also the claims of such figures like Jesus tend to be extraordinary, as such we require equally extraordinary evidence to back up the claim. A guy talking philosophy or ruling a nation is far less extraordinary than a guy doing things that would seem to go against the laws of physics.

Anyone here up on how we determine the historicity of something/one?

More,
Historicity Of Jesus FAQ
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 4:59pm

Salvidian

Salvidian

4,299 posts

Unwillingly. God made a bet with Satan on whether Job would give up his faith if God took everything from him. Satan had some lols and God punished one of his most loyal followers for absolutely no reason, because Satan egged him on. This is supposed to demonstrate God's loving, just nature, right?


****. I can't find my annotations for when I read the Book of Job for AP Lit. Anyway, I remember that it was looked upon as being a serious paradox. Job's "friends" (Eliphaz and the other 2 guys that I can't remember) tell Job that he did something wrong. God basically let Satan do these things so God could teach his 3 friends a lesson; the lesson being that they didn't know how God worked. Because of Job's trouble, God gave Job a much better life than he previously had, minus the dead kids. God had reasoning.

Jobe gave up his wife


No he didn't. Job's wife was kept alive because she was a nagging *****.
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 5:56pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

9,475 posts

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.

Jephthah sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering and Samson killed thousands in his faithful suicide. What's your point?
 

Posted Feb 18, '13 at 6:20pm

Vendablebow

Vendablebow

30 posts

^^ Again old testament, and if your not familiar with the new testament you should read it as it was a new covenant between man and God.

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.

 
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