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Forums → WEPR → Steubenville
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One of the key words in this post will be censored. I've never known why and I contend that it ought not to be because it is sending a fundamentally wrong message.
I've been following this case for some months now, but given the recent media coverage, I'm not sure whether I should be surprised or not surprised that the topic has yet to be raised here.
Well, I think it's important, so I'm raising it now.
Relevant facts of the case:
A girl went to a party somewhere in Steubenville, a party at which several members of the local football team were present.
The girl subsequently became intoxicated to the point that she was for all intents and purposes unconscious.
Over the next several hours, several members of aforementioned football team performed and recorded unsolicited sexual acts on the girl. They then continued recording while they drove the unconscious girl to several other parties where the same happened. During this, it is verbally acknowledged on recording that the girl is unconscious, that the sexual acts being performed are without any form of consent, and that they willfully disregard this while continuing to perform the acts.
This footage is still publicly available as it was published on several social networking sites. I will refrain from linking to it here.
The girl is eventually dumped outside her own house. She is not aware of the events of the night until it is brought to her attention as a result of the distribution of recorded footage on networking sites.
Subsequent attempts to clarify what happened and to seek legal advice are met with resistance and threats in order to suppress the family of the girl. This appears to be because Steubenville's football players were involved.
It takes a sustained and somewhat-illegal campaign led by Anonymous to bring to public attention the specific details of the case, including the details of people they believe were positively identified in the footage, that the acts recorded constitute ****, and that prosecution ought to follow.
Eventually, two of the perpetrators are tried and convicted of ****.
Subsequently, just about every major broadcasting network in the US laments the destruction of two promising football careers and the tragedy of young men being convicted of ****.
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It's at this point that much of the world took notice and went "Wait, what?" While it is true that the girl did attend the party, and did become intoxicated, this incident is being portrayed such that the girl is the one at fault. And that the ones who ***** her (repeatedly and willfully, on video) are the victims. And every one of these media reports appear to conveniently forget what sexual assault actually is, and what standards we, as purportedly civilised people, are supposed to be holding ourselves to.
What I want to know is, can any of you tell me what the hell is going on in America? What's the real deal? What does the public actually think of this case, or are they only aware of the media party line and therefore agree that the boys are the victims? And what the **** is wrong with a country with institutions that rally behind patriotic hubris to the extent that it disregards the rights which it supposedly granted equally to its citizens? What kind of shameful pride is that?
Tell me it isn't so. This isn't a problem unique to the US, of course, seeing as Australia has had a similar problem with its own footy **** culture several years ago, and worse happens on a regular basis in India, not to mention other places... but thanks to the happenings in a small town in the US, and the subsequent distortion of justice and the media machine which is plain as day to anybody who doesn't live there, the spotlight, America, is now on you.
- 86 Replies
B: You can get raped anyway, and your logic means that even if the victim is raped despite your oh-so-powerful 'revention' the victim is the one at fault? Not quite. Not quite.
How many ****ing times will I have to say
And no its not victim's fault she got ravaged
A man can dress as he like. Back in the 18 century, the view of a women ancle was "enough" to be not inappropiatley. So what next? Iranian dress?
Yeah take it to the ****ing extreme.
This is moddest
I dont. I do agree that provoking dress is not good, but from the other way. I think that when a little girl 'learn' to dress like that she dont give her budy the respect it deserve.
And i understand what you are saying punisher. Its like throwing a stake to a police dog. Its enough that the one and only dog in a group of 100 who isnt trained enough to eat it. There are sick peoples out there who fight there "needs" every momment, and these mini dresses are not making it easier.
I know it sound like blaming the victim but there have to be a limit.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with this case. Here the local media cry on the lost career like it was an accident and not a rape.
What does how much a hypothetical rape victim is wearing have to do with the Steubenville case?
Why: because bad things are happening to them and that's a piteous situation. How? Basic empathy? What do you mean how do I feel sorry for people? What kind of question is that? I am capable of empathizing with other people. That's how I feel sorry for them.
Piteous situation? You are aware they brought them on themselves, right? My level of caring about people tends to end with rapists and murderers. You know, people who tend to do things that irrovocably ruin another person's life, not to mention damaging the well being of the surrounding loved ones.
Now, with that in mind, do you support the towns-people for trying to cover up the crime?
Not in the rapists head.
Terrible logic. We can't pick rapists out from everyone else. So, no that point is invalid as to why women should dress conservatively. You're essentially denying them the right of self expression, free speech if you will.
Another rare instance in which I agree with Xzeno.
Guys, what he's saying isn't that he's supporting the rapists for their actions. Boiling it all down, all we have now are one raped teenage girl and two teenage boys who now have this to remember for the rest of their lives. Even though it was their fault and they shouldn't have done it, the boys will forever be affected by this decision and it was all completely avoidable. It's a pitiable case on every front.
@thepunisher
I don't sy its victim's fault but if she dresses inappropiatley that is an open invitation to sick ppl(at least in their heads)
So women should dress properly.
This is a non sequitr. Women get raped regardless of whether they're "dressed properly" or not, and it's irrelevant to the matter. Rape is a crime and rapists aren't going to stop their attacks because a woman is now wearing 55% more clothing.
Take this as your car, if some one steals it blames on them but yo lock you car nevertheless.
The problem is the thief, not the car. Yes, you lock the car, but a direct analogy would be all women wearing chastity belts. Please tell me that you aren't that far down the apologetic bs trail.
Until you have exact answer of above two questions, the only to find the rapists is when he commits it, by then the victim is literally screwed.Prevention is better than cure.
Showing absolutely no skin and walking around in full robes and a hood is not prevention. It's only punishing and restricting women for a rapists potential crime. Why should all women have to wear clothing they do not want to, because some people don't control themselves?
If I know that a certain part of town has a sizeable proportion of Neo Nazis, who will beat me to death on sight, I will avoid it, same as I will avoid passing through a dark alley at night or walk feeble infront of a group of hoodlums, these are al pecautions to prevent some thing bad from happening to me, just like wearing modest clothes and carrying mace etc can be precautions against rape.
Again, the problem here are the Neo-Nazis and hoodlums. Not you. Also again, equating purposefully placing yourself into a situation being in which you are, "asking for it," by simply being there is shifting the blame. It's ridiculous that you're trying to say it's the victims fault for being careless, when it's a crime that should never have happened to begin with. Carrying mace is one thing, because that's a legitimate way to protect oneself. Wearing more clothing isn't going to help anyone.
Yeah take it to the ****ing extreme.
This is moddest
I would agree it is. What is wrong with it? Or are you giving an example?
Even if the woman was dressed in a miniature bikini, that doesn't give people the right to do whatever they want to her. And before you say it, arguing that dressing scantily is, "asking for it," or, "being unprepared," is once more shifting the blame to the would-be victim. It's not the woman's fault what others do to her without her permission, end of story. You can try your apologetics on it all you want, but that's the cold hard truth.
This is a non sequitr. Women get raped regardless of whether they're "dressed properly" or not, and it's irrelevant to the matter. Rape is a crime and rapists aren't going to stop their attacks because a woman is now wearing 55% more clothing.
I know this for a fact that I will not think of a woman who is dressed modestly as I will think of the other women dressed sexily.
It's a matter of common sense.
You're essentially denying them the right of self expression, free speech if you will.
Well hug on to them rights as tight as you can just like the right to bear arms.
Choose the liberty over Safety if you want to.
I would agree it is. What is wrong with it? Or are you giving an example?
Even if the woman was dressed in a miniature bikini, that doesn't give people the right to do whatever they want to her. And before you say it, arguing that dressing scantily is, "asking for it," or, "being unprepared," is once more shifting the blame to the would-be victim. It's not the woman's fault what others do to her without her permission, end of story.
I never said that.
All I say is that prevention is better than cure.
Well hug on to them rights as tight as you can just like the right to bear arms.
Choose the liberty over Safety if you want to
I'm a Canadian dear fellow, we're not big on the whole gun thing.
I never said that.
All I say is that prevention is better than cure.
Your form of "revention" isn't actually that at all. You're mistaking the cause of rape. Style of dress has nothing to do with it. So, this is why your argument is flawed, because the premise itself is wrong.
Your form of "revention" isn't actually that at all. You're mistaking the cause of rape. Style of dress has nothing to do with it. So, this is why your argument is flawed, because the premise itself is wrong.
It is one of many factors wolverine.
I know this for a fact that I will not think of a woman who is dressed modestly as I will think of the other women dressed sexily.
It's a matter of common sense.
Your point? How the woman looks is completely irrelevant to whether she is consenting or not. Clothing is a non-issue.
Well hug on to them rights as tight as you can just like the right to bear arms.
Choose the liberty over Safety if you want to.
If a woman wants to hide herself, then fine. However, blaming her for another's crime because she chose not to, 'dress modestly,' is shifting the blame. The problem is the rapist, not the woman, in any instance.
All I say is that prevention is better than cure.
As I've already said, rape still happens regardless. Your form of prevention is a sieve. Wearing more clothes won't change anything.
Going by your logic, if all women wore concealing clothing, then all women would be equally likely to be raped. Nothing changes, except you want them to restrict themselves for the benefit of the criminal.
Well hug on to them rights as tight as you can just like the right to bear arms.
Choose the liberty over Safety if you want to.
you know how much i hate guns, right?
but this is a complete different story. you can remove expression from a person.
where the usa go's way extreme whit their gun rights. that far, if not even further into the extreme do you go whit the opposite, prevention.
taking it to the extreme is never good.
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on a side note.
do you believe, that the way that your country you live in now act whit rape victims, is the right way?
I don't sy its victim's fault but if she dresses inappropiatley that is an open invitation to sick ppl(at least in their heads)
So women should dress properly.
Can you show one case in which a woman choosing to wear more clothing saved her from being raped?
The argument that why women should be afraid or hide as they are equal is just some feminist BS.
What does feminism have to do with this?
Take this as your car, if some one steals it blames on them but yo lock you car nevertheless.
A better comparison would be carjacking, not theft.
(never an invitation) Not in the rapists head.
How would you know?
If I know that a certain part of town has a sizeable proportion of Neo Nazis, who will beat me to death on sight, I will avoid it, same as I will avoid passing through a dark alley at night or walk feeble infront of a group of hoodlums, these are al pecautions to prevent some thing bad from happening to me, just like wearing modest clothes and carrying mace etc can be precautions against rape.
Use of common sense and some caution can save one from many perils.
And no its not victim's fault she got ravaged although she should have taken precautions.
The majority of rape is not random and is not performed by strangers.
All I say is that prevention is better than cure.
I'm sorry punisher, but your argument is basically the same as blaming a homeowner for having a rock thrown into his window because he decided he wanted windows with his house. that makes no sense whatsoever.
if you wanted prevention, look at the culprits, not the victims, for preventative measures. if anything, the best course of action in this case would be to legalize prostitution (which I'm sure would be a lot more troublesome in the long run). you could also look at better education in the matter. sure it won't have an immediate yield, but overtime it will provide way better results that dressing like a repressed nun.
-Blade
I'm sorry punisher, but your argument is basically the same as blaming a homeowner for having a rock thrown into his window because he decided he wanted windows with his house. that makes no sense whatsoever.
if you wanted prevention, look at the culprits, not the victims, for preventative measures. if anything, the best course of action in this case would be to legalize prostitution (which I'm sure would be a lot more troublesome in the long run). you could also look at better education in the matter. sure it won't have an immediate yield, but overtime it will provide way better results that dressing like a repressed nun.
-Blade
No, my argument is that prevention is better than cure.
Eliminate the opportunity and temptation .
on a side note.
do you believe, that the way that your country you live in now act whit rape victims, is the right way?
And how If I may ask do they deal with victims in your opinion?
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Maybe not in pakistan (well, atleast the urban sides) but in many places in your area wonens get stoned, get ex-communicated for "destroying a man mind into a sin".
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