ForumsWEPRWhy do we do what we do?

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partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

i often think about the human psychology, how we behave in different situations, with different people around us.
what we do & don't to get attention and acceptance. what we do & don't to avoid certain people and situations.

what makes our brains to go highwire when we meet that special one, this soulmate?
why didn't we get this feeling when we met someone almost identical to this one, but at the same time so different person?

what makes us do so much for someone else, when we're not even doing anything even close to that for ourselves? or are all those things we do for others just another way for us to something for ourselves?
are we forever bound to be selfish, but with manipulative excuses (such as favors) to hide our true intentions?

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thebluerabbit
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omg so much to respond to... anyway... i quick read some posts so sorry if this was answered or i missed something.

what about supporting people to do something that will make yourself feel less good?
for example: what if a very close friend find love abroad. and he is going to move there. of course you will support your friend to find his happiness, but at the same time you know you will lose him...
why do we still support them when we have nothing to gain and only to lose from it?


true. but hey... wouldnt you feel good knowing you supported them to make them feel good? on the other hand if you were the reason they stayed wouldnt you feel guilty even if they didnt blame you?

but it isn't as unique as a fingerprint or eye structure. i didn't seek for it but my guess is that there are just so many differences. maybe a few millions sure. but not 7billion. also do i not smell the same every day. sometimes it's worse. sometimes it's even quite nice... then i put on deodorant, and the other time it's perfume. (male perfume of course, befor you all going to pretend weird things. =P ) will i be attractive one day an the next day not? is that why it most relations fail so fast? if so, then are those marketing boys from axe right with this?


its really much more complicated.

even though we all have our own scent i doubt that they all are that different. theres not just one person you can fall in love with and not just one smell you like.
(this is all logic and personal opinion so dont take me too seriously):

if a person likes scent: X-R-Y-M-O (where X is the most dominant part and O is the least) then he would probably have a huge crush on another person with that scent. but he would probably have a pretty big crush with someone who has the same scent except with another letter in the end no?

just my theory.

and about the internet thing you said.

usually a person you find sexually attractive will probably have a scent you like (again... just a theory). for example: manly jocks with a huge amount of testosterone and whatnot probably have a stronger scent. a woman who likes that scent probably likes buff manly men.

also... it has alot to do with how you define love. they could have just chated but when he sends a pic the woman is totally turned off and is not interested anymore... that can easily happen... so why not with smell?

theres also the difference between sexual attraction and love. smell would be more based on sexual attraction no? and if theres no sexual attraction... can a relationship really work? (unless your asexual and god thats a whole different story im not gonna try to understand now lol).

oh yeah... and about perfume, deordorant and how strong a scent is. many times women wont react to smelly men in a good way even if they ARE attracted to that scent. first of all... even though the perfume alone always has the same smell, as soon as it touches skin it gets mixed with the natural scent of the person which creates a different kind of smell (techincally we might physically smell the same smell of the perfume but you can actually tell that somehow a perfume works better on one person then another one).

as for strong body odor... i guess thats only good when a person is really into some sexual stuff at the moment. a woman can get totally grossed out by your strong body odor but it can turn her on if she is in the mood.

i also read that women are more sensitive to scents while on their period (the time that theres more chance to get pregnant no?)
MacII
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MacII
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Just a swift read & reply myself,

i also read that women are more sensitive to scents while on their period (the time that theres more chance to get pregnant no?)


No, that's when there's the least chance of a woman getting pregnant (in fact you can be pretty darn sure she won't)

But, yes, you are right: Some of those links provided touched on how women were found more susceptible to it during ovulation, which is when the chance to get pregnant is highest Would seem to make sense, really.

Some other swift comments: Sure, I hadn't meant to derail this thread by making it all about scent. It isn't, and that had just been a swift and first association of mine. Pretty off-beat in other ways, it is true.

The scent or so mostly pheromones in question btw shouldn't be confused with what we consider "nice" smells or not, it works far more subtly/subliminally than that. Indeed, largely on an unconscious plane. (One counter-argument in one of those links against notably this commercialization of it, by producing supposedly attractive smells using these pheromones, is that in a room full of people you'd still not know, subconsciously or otherwise, who that scent is associated with. Whereas in order to make that click to that indidvidual, you'd need to be 1:1 with them, so there'd already be other factors at play.)

Partydevil, no, you won't find instructions on how to score in Fromm's book. Pick it up at the library or second-hand bookstore of your choice, it's worth a read. To others still: It has been widely translated.

(It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember him touching, among other things, on what we consider passive or active behavior, I guess in relation to what are actively objects of desire, or mere &quotassion," as in literally passively following an urge. I think I was reminded of it by this question of what is really selfishness, or egoism, or rather altruism, which btw I personally do believe really exists, and we are after all social beings, first and foremost. OK, one may then ask, is that not still self-preservation. Either way, it is then of course important to ask oneself, so what is the Self, or the ego.

Anyhows, the book is quite instructive. He was, and is, otherwise well-known for his studies on mass psychology, notably related to the experiences of WWI and II. He was a Jew himself, who left Nazi Germany after Hitler's takeover in the early 1930's. The Art of Loving, as well as some of those studies, was I'm sure quite influential on the wider 1960's counterculture.)

... And then some remarks, must have slipped my mind So what does make us tick, indeed. Good question
MacII
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MacII
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Wouldn't you know it, btw: http://archive.org/details/TheArtOfLoving . The legality of this I ain't vouching for.

MacII
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MacII
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Shepherd

... And then another pps (getting to be a habit. Where's that edit button! ),

[quote=MacII]No, [menstruation is] when there's the least chance of a woman getting pregnant (in fact you can be pretty darn sure she won't) [/quote]

I realized now there's plenty of youngsters reading along here.

Kids, folks, fellow creatures & lovers : If you want to practice birth control, do so wisely and with the valid means at your disposal, please. To rely on "those days" of the month (known as "calendar-based contraceptive methods" in English, I find now? In my language, it's roughly called periodical abstinence. Ah, in English I now find rhythm method, or safe period method) is notorious for its high rate of failure, in other words, of inadvertent pregnancy.

Not exactly what you bargained for, is it.

As the anonymous graffiti had it: Save sex, not whales

partydevil
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partydevil
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But I think I remember a study saying people, especially women, were able to unconsciously smell the more attractive people even through the deo. And this body smell doesn't change, only what you use to cover it up

i would like to see that study. and why especially woman? there is no difference in the nose anatomy, right?

And also the situation/state you're in, like hormones; I'd wager you're more likely to fall in love with someone when under an adrenaline boost than when depressive, for example.

i think it doesn't matter if you are depressed or not, the feeling of love gives a adrenaline boost on it's own. 2 depressed people could share interests and find support with each other. that can turn in this adrenalin boost called love.

it depends also on just how much you were expecting something to happen. This definitely will impact your reaction.

this seems to go to where people search to hard to find this person. changing their real behavior just to be liked. this might work for a month or so, but if you can't be yourself in a relationship then it will not take long befor he or she starts to see the real you that they did not fall in love with...
for some reason it always happens when you least expect it...

Of course there's also the factor of the presence of others around you, and more, but this just as a thought.

in what way does other people around you influence your behavior?
i especially like to think about this part of the human psychology. i would like to hear some thoughts of other about it. ^^
let's stay on the subject of finding love, either searching for it or not. how do they influence your behavior?

Doing otherwise could result in an even greater personal loss.
Making your friend feel good = to you feeling good
Losing your friend = to you feeling less good.
Losing your friend + making them feel good = you feel less good but better for making your friend feel good.
losing your friend + not making them feel good = you feel less good and don't receive a better feeling from making your friend feel better.

so the only reason for me to support him is to not feel worse myself? or is just the notion of knowing he will be happy make me feel better aswell when i did not support him? can i really be happy for a other person? or does the happiness of other people not influence my own happiness? does it always have to concern me to feel there happiness?

wouldnt you feel good knowing you supported them to make them feel good? on the other hand if you were the reason they stayed wouldnt you feel guilty even if they didnt blame you?

good point. and again its about feeling good myself. like we are always only looking for how things will change for us most positively possible. i'm not saying there is something wrong with it. sure it's not. but isn't it very selfish of us?

if a person likes scent: X-R-Y-M-O (where X is the most dominant part and O is the least) then he would probably have a huge crush on another person with that scent. but he would probably have a pretty big crush with someone who has the same scent except with another letter in the end no?

i think i understand, but i'm not quite sure. can you explain 1 more time maybe?

also... it has alot to do with how you define love. they could have just chated but when he sends a pic the woman is totally turned off and is not interested anymore... that can easily happen... so why not with smell?
personally, a woman that would react in such way isn't worth it anyway. =P

but was the love they had during the chatting part not real love then? then what is felt during the chat? i mean befor they saw or smelled each other?
altho it's hard to imagion to not have a photo of someone these days. but it does happen i got the experience.

if theres no sexual attraction... can a relationship really work?

does this sexual attraction have to be there on 1st sight? or can it kinda grow up on you? is sexual attraction needed to fall in love with someone? or is it possible to fall in love and later evolve the sexual attraction to this person? or maybe this is the situation where someone is in love but doesn't know it themself. =S

even though the perfume alone always has the same smell, as soon as it touches skin it gets mixed with the natural scent of the person which creates a different kind of smell (techincally we might physically smell the same smell of the perfume but you can actually tell that somehow a perfume works better on one person then another one).

i didn't think of that befor. thx.
but not everyone spray's it on their skin. a lot of people only use it to spray on their clothes. does it still change the smell of it then?

Would seem to make sense, really.

how so? why would here olfactory senses increase during ovulation? =S
does it also increase around there 30/35 and they dont have a kid yet? and do they consciously experience it?

(It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember him touching, among other things, on what we consider passive or active behavior, I guess in relation to what are actively objects of desire, or mere &quotassion," as in literally passively following an urge. I think I was reminded of it by this question of what is really selfishness, or egoism, or rather altruism, which btw I personally do believe really exists, and we are after all social beings, first and foremost. OK, one may then ask, is that not still self-preservation. Either way, it is then of course important to ask oneself, so what is the Self, or the ego.

thx for the little explaining. i'm surely gonna get the book. it sounds really good. thx.

I realized now there's plenty of youngsters reading along here.
it's nothing sexual... i'm sure all these youngsters have seen much worse on the i-net alrdy. they learn what you said in school or there parents sometime if they didn't yet. i knew it when i was 13... =)
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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i would like to see that study. and why especially woman? there is no difference in the nose anatomy, right?

Nah, few anatomic differences and not relevant in this case. I guess in this case it would be more neuronal; after all in many species, females choose the best males. Anyway it does not matter, I read that a few years ago in some newspaper, I don't remember the details, and I'll probably never find the study :S

i think it doesn't matter if you are depressed or not, the feeling of love gives a adrenaline boost on it's own. 2 depressed people could share interests and find support with each other. that can turn in this adrenalin boost called love.

The point was more about the chances of falling for someone at all, not how you act once you love someone. At this point I'd like to specify that I don't think you can fall in love with a stranger, the way I define love, hence the need of social interaction to learn to know someone; which is harder if you are depressive. Do you understand my point, or am I just writing stupid stuff?

this seems to go to where people search to hard to find this person.

I guess. It also makes you less receptible for other situations; keeping it on topic, you might not notice a nice girl just because you're expecting something else. Might have happened at least once to me.

let's stay on the subject of finding love, either searching for it or not. how do they influence your behavior?

Well, if we have to stay in that topic. For example, for me it is easier to express myself and generally easier to talk to someone if I am alone with said person, not together with a few others that person might also talk to. Or if there are other people around, I might not feel confident enough to do something. On the other hand, there are people that are more prone to brag and act stupid in the try to impress someone if there are friends around; such a person tends to be more reasonabe alone.
danielo
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danielo
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After many years of learning psycholigy and some chemistry, i came to the conclusion that we are robots who work by chemicals. If ill give you some chemicals you can be the angriest person ever. If ill give you a spesific medicen you can be a sensative and shy person. Its all about the liver! Not our heart pr a soul. Its about what your body produce and how many of it.

Kasic
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After many years of learning psycholigy and some chemistry, i came to the conclusion that we are robots who work by chemicals


That's about where I was two years ago. People are organic machines, functioning based on natural processes and free will is only an illusion.

I've since moved on to think that this is still somewhat true, but that thought/reflection provides people the ability to change in ways they desire to. Essentially, still organic machines, but by making good decisions (ie, eating better to be more healthy, regularly exercising, keeping temper and what not) we are better able to function, and thus able to be a better person by continuing to work on improving oneself.

You're correct that you can give someone a drug and it will affect them, but as someone who has been on a lot of different medications, I'll say this clearly. No drug affects someone the same way, and even if it's affecting them, that doesn't mean it's who they really are. You can give someone this "chemical to make them the angriest person ever" but all you're really doing is messing with their body and making it not function properly, not truly making them the angriest person ever.

does this sexual attraction have to be there on 1st sight? or can it kinda grow up on you? is sexual attraction needed to fall in love with someone? or is it possible to fall in love and later evolve the sexual attraction to this person? or maybe this is the situation where someone is in love but doesn't know it themself. =S


Asexuals who are romantic manage to have relationships that are devoid of sexual attraction.

I've said this on another topic before, but there's different kinds of love. There's the kind of love you have for your family, which is (most often) not sexual. There's the kind of love you have for your close friends, who may as well be family, and that is (often) not sexual. There's the kind of love you have for a spouse in which physical attraction and libido is (most often) a large part of the relationship. Then there's the kind of love you have for your favorite food.

but was the love they had during the chatting part not real love then? then what is felt during the chat? i mean befor they saw or smelled each other?


If the feeling was lost upon seeing the picture, then that means they would have imagined an entirely different person, which they had feelings for, and not the actual person. An imaginary friend, pretty much.
danielo
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danielo
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Kasic, if your body product enough of a Chemicals, your brain will work diffruntly, which may cause you eating properly. The human individual body is so uniqe that a medicen will never work the same, thats true. But we do can change the DNA so the new baby will product these chemicals. We can actualy, with enough time energy and knowledge, , create a angry baby or a calm baby. A shy baby or a show-off baby. A gamer or a Beliber (altrough that will make you sign a contract with the devil, as its his job to create these last type babies).

My chemicals make me able to enjoy lying here on my military bed, while slackin' off my job to discuse with you guys.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Kasic, if your body product enough of a Chemicals, your brain will work diffruntly, which may cause you eating properly. The human individual body is so uniqe that a medicen will never work the same, thats true. But we do can change the DNA so the new baby will product these chemicals. We can actualy, with enough time energy and knowledge, , create a angry baby or a calm baby. A shy baby or a show-off baby. A gamer or a Beliber (altrough that will make you sign a contract with the devil, as its his job to create these last type babies).

It's not all chemicals. Chemicals ensure some of the transport of information, and influence you. But what you are is mostly neuronal connections.

I sort of agree with your first point though. Indeed as Kasic says we are able to make decisions about our life, but those decisions don't come out of nothing, they're also influenced by our organism; and our organism also sometimes limits our capacity to change, or the speed at which we are able to push a change through.
partydevil
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partydevil
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i just agree with you hahiha =)


If the feeling was lost upon seeing the picture, then that means they would have imagined an entirely different person, which they had feelings for, and not the actual person. An imaginary friend, pretty much.

so the love he felt for this "real imaginary friend" was not real love?

Well, if we have to stay in that topic.

we dont have to anymore i guess... but i would like to keep it psychological and not biological. =)
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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god this is long. im gonna quick read and respond to things one at a time lol

i would like to see that study. and why especially woman? there is no difference in the nose anatomy, right?


that actually makes sense. if im not wrong males usually have stronger scents then females. and im gonna guess they let males smell female scents and vice versa.

also... theres a huge fail in this though. we can mostly agree on who is attractive and who isnt. but overall we all have different taste. some people like older people, some people dislike the muscular look. so... its really subjective.

i think i understand, but i'm not quite sure. can you explain 1 more time maybe?


hmmm ill try a different way then...

lets say you really like cherry juice. theres a glass with pure cherry juice and another glass thats 90% cherry juice and 10% water. you will enjoy the first better but you will also really like the second.

personally, a woman that would react in such way isn't worth it anyway. =P


easy to say. but lets say this happens to you and you finally see the woman and she is one of those obesse women who can barely get inside cars (im talking about the extremely obese ones who are famous for it).

but was the love they had during the chatting part not real love then? then what is felt during the chat? i mean befor they saw or smelled each other?
altho it's hard to imagion to not have a photo of someone these days. but it does happen i got the experience.


well thats exactly where the definition is important. i would most of the time just call it affection and not love. there are other cases though. you can never know. sometimes you like a person so much that you can bear their looks and slowly it grows on you. everything happesn.

does this sexual attraction have to be there on 1st sight? or can it kinda grow up on you? is sexual attraction needed to fall in love with someone? or is it possible to fall in love and later evolve the sexual attraction to this person? or maybe this is the situation where someone is in love but doesn't know it themself. =S


sexual attraction is just what it is. its about taste and it usually doesnt change. if you see a woman who really matches your taste you will probably immidiatly want to get her to bed. and you will probably never want to imagine it with someone who is the opposite of your taste. in a perfect world it really wouldnt matter but in the end, looks DOES matter. there are other things that can make you sexually attracted. voice, language, even personality. but overall what counts the most is the looks and if it suits you dont you think?

also, im gonna ignore asexuals here because they only make about 2% of the population (i think... cant remember) and thats even more complicated. i dont think i can reach that level of understanding.

i also want to add after seeing kasiks post: in the end everything about us is part of us. your look is also a part of you. you would like to believe differently and that only your personality counts who you are... and you are kind of right. but it will not be the only thing you will be judged upon (for the worse and better).

and for your question if it was fake love: i dont think it is. tha tperson was just in love with the person he thought.... person A was just in love with ther person he thought person B was but wasnt. looks, voice, personality, education, those are all things that count when its about love and sexual attraction.

i said that someones looks can grow on you. but i dont think it can reach the level where the person will be the first choice youd make if you wanted to have sex (ignoring other factors like emotional love).

i didn't think of that befor. thx.
but not everyone spray's it on their skin. a lot of people only use it to spray on their clothes. does it still change the smell of it then?


id say yes but much less. i mean, clothes are still just clothes. and do remember, even though scent comes from your body the actual smell can be felt from far too. its in the air so maybe its not much less but almost the same. just thought about that while i typed this lol.
danielo
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Chemicals again! The feeling of love is the effect of a chemical your liver release. This imaginary friend made his liver release these chemicals.
We are robots!

thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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i personally dont think its just chemicals and all that. true, its a big part and in the end its all in the genes. but think about it. some things that might get me to tears wont affect you and vice versa. some things that make me afraid might not affect you either. why am i more sensitive to a chemical then you? or maybe its a whole different reason, why does my body lets out a chemical in a specific moment and yours doesnt?

sorry if it was answered in the links. i dont have time to read everything

EmperorPalpatine
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some things that might get me to tears wont affect you and vice versa. some things that make me afraid might not affect you either. why am i more sensitive to a chemical then you?

Memories, personal experiences, culture, genetics, etc.

why does my body lets out a chemical in a specific moment and yours doesnt?

Conditioning, genetics, gland development, etc.
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